On Sept. 20, the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy banning gays from serving openly will be stripped from the military’s rulebook. For gay Marines, official repeal will be a historic day, comparable to the moment 63 years ago when President Truman ordered the services to end racial segregation.
For straight Marines, this will bring changes, too. “That’s gay” — a pervasive phrase used throughout the Corps to express dislike for almost anything — will no longer be tolerated. Equal treatment will be a must. And yes, some gay Marines will bring dates to the Marine Corps Birthday Ball in November.
With the end of “don’t ask” just days away, this week’s cover story includes the stories of several gay Marines who wanted to share their views on repeal and the future of the Marine Corps. Gay Marines interviewed for the story include:
— A corporal in the infantry, based at Camp Pendleton, Calif.
— A major at Quantico, Va.
— An infantry officer and company commander at Pendleton.
— A former enlisted Marine now enrolled at the Naval Academy
— And a field grade officer in California
Hear what they have to say about the end of “don’t ask,” don’t tell” in this week’s edition of Marine Corps Times, on newsstands now. Or, subscribe here.
Thanks for the article, and, yes, much has changed for the better than in, e.g., 1975 when a base commander had to be reminded of the Constitution when he tried to order the manager of the PX to remove copies of the famous issue of TIME magazine with Air Force TSgt. Leonard Matlovich in uniform on the cover behind the bold words, “I Am A Homosexual.” http://www.leonardmatlovich.com. BUT, with respect, anyone believing that “equal treatment will be a must” after September 20th has not been paying adequate attention. “Training” has already documented that all branches will deny gay and lesbian service members access to the protections against harassment and discrimination IN the military that other groups such as African-Americans and women have under the Military Equal Opportunity Program [MEO] AND to some crucial partner benefits that even the DoD admits are NOT banned by DOMA such as access to “military family housing.”
In short, the Pentagon is replicating some of the same mistakes, based on bigotry, that they continued for years for African-Americans even after they had integrated every branch, and even though Truman’s Executive Order was all about “equal opportunity” NOT just integration which, in fact, it didn’t mention at all. In bitter irony, the MEO was one of the things that grew out of their finally being forced to stop tolerating racism after “race riots” on bases and ships around the world in the late 60s, early 70s. Another was [now abandoned] “Race Relations” classes for which Leonard Matlovich was a highly rated instructor when he chose to out himself in order to start the fight against the ban 36 years ago. Upon exiting his administrative board hearing where he’d been told he would be discharged, he told waiting MSM: “Maybe not in my lifetime, but we will win in the end.” The date: September 19th, 1975.
I plan to become a Navy Chaplain & although, I don’t agree with homosexual, I am glad DADT will officially be gone. God made it clear that you love the person, & not their sin. I’ll be proud to serve any sailor, marine, & coast guardsman & the way you deal with any sin & get one to turn from it, is through your example as Jesus did with the prostitute.
It’s about time fair treatment is delt to all Marines. But if this does not fall under Equal Opprotunity (EO). Where does it fall under?
This article is absolutley disgraceful. Not because of the subject, but becuase of the content. I do not need to know about how gay men and women handle a shower situation. Just way too much information.
Hmm…thinking about the ball. What are we to expect? Are gay men allowed to bring their boyfriend, who may not be in the military, and who just may want to wear a gown? This will be one very interesting birthday ball.
I think this cover is disrespectful to the entire Marine Corps. I understand what it’s about but the headline makes it seems like the entire Marine Corps is gay. If I had a subscription to Marine Times I think I would cancel. I am truely disgusted by this picture it presents!
As dark a day as I can recall.
If this is the best tact we can expect from Marine Corps Times, I will never purchase another issue, nor will I support any articles or efforts in which they are involved.
Sick….what is this world coming too
Of course, I’ve seen higher ups are more apprehensive to this. By the time my generation is sitting in those higher billets, none of this will be an issue any longer. I’m gay myself, been in 4 years now, and I’m damn good at my job. I plan on coming out, and I don’t think it’s gonna be an issue with my command at all. It’ll be a relief when I finally don’t have to lie about who I’m with or where I’ve been on the weekends anymore. No more making up fake girlfriends and stuff like that. So your bigotry will no longer be a concern of mine gentlemen.
Also, if you thing you’ll be able to cripple someone’s career over your personal prejudices, don’t think you won’t be sitting in the hot seat soon after trying to explain why you let your professional attidude towards someone be influenced by your personal views on their sexuality. You’ll be held accountable for it.
This is ridiculous. The editor who decided this title would fly should be fired. I am not against gays serving but to have that title? It got my attention loud and clear. The Marine Times does not want to put out good word they want to sell their product. Never again will I purchase a copy. I have laughed at other branches titles ex the Army Times said it would give “More Power to NCO’s”. I laughed because it shows the inability of the army to be as reliant on NCO’s as we are.
This title is not a laughing matter. I know what it ment, and what was going to be in the article, but to an outsider it looks like you are calling the Corps gay. Chesty is rolling over in his grave, not because gays are allowed, but because idiots like the editor are trying to sell off the Corps.
I do agree that the title is ridiculous. It is a little too in-your-face and attention-grabbing
Actually, I believe the title is referencing an popular ACT-UP/ Queer Nation protest chant from the 90s. “We’re here, we’re queer, get over it.” It’s meant to harken back to a time of confrontation about basic civil rights.
Its understandable that this would totally fly over the heads of most straight readers. Queer history isn’t something you really look up unless you’re part of the demographic.
And if you think the magazine title will make everyone assume the military is gay, think of it this way: Up until now, all gays were ASSUMED straight– and if not, then you lose your job and your livelihood.
“Also, if you thing you’ll be able to cripple someone’s career over your personal prejudices, don’t think you won’t be sitting in the hot seat soon after trying to explain why you let your professional attidude towards someone be influenced by your personal views on their sexuality. You’ll be held accountable for it.”
You’re now a special protected class, better than normal Marines. If someone stops your career because you’re colossally inept, you’ll be able to scream “homophobia” and get promoted until you get someone killed. You won’t be held accountable for anything anymore. Congratulations on being more equal than others.
You get special treatment. Of course you’re for it. This is about you getting power over non-gay servicemembers. Hence the insult to the Corps from the Marine Corps Times.
I’m sure the great majority of people we’re at war with right now will also embrace your “lifestyle choice”, too. How exactly do you stick openly gay servicemembers into nations that want you executed just for living?
“Hey al Zawahiri! We’re gay, we’re occupying your nation, get over it!” That’ll go over well. Or do you want to force them to accept your ways, too?
(For the inevitable ahole who’s going to liken this to desegregation – it was progressives under Wilson who segregated the military as a social experiment. Now it’s progressives under the new CiC who are forcing social experiments onto the military.)
“Actually, I believe the title is referencing an popular ACT-UP/ Queer Nation protest chant from the 90s. “We’re here, we’re queer, get over it.” It’s meant to harken back to a time of confrontation about basic civil rights.”
Plenty of people know about it. They just don’t care.
Gay rights aren’t civil rights. They’re special priviledges.
No, you’re just threatened by the thought of being considered equal to a homosexual. It’s obvious from the way you talk about them.
You know, those staff nco’s on here that post things like “sick” and “it’s a dark day” are terrible snco’s and Marines for that matter. People like you are why personally I will never reenlist as well as why many good Marines don’t reenlist. I believe the first of our core values is “honor”. It’s much more embarrassing to me that we still have complete ignorance at such a high degree than the repeal of DADT ever could.
Nice try, but I’m a great SNCO, and I enlisted and Re-enlisted into a corps with a different set of values than those which we are being forced into. Get out if you don’t like my views, there is no shortage of good Marines who agree with me that are willing to stick around despite the change. Think what you want, I have my views and if you think this change is good for the Marine Corps, I don’t place much value on your opinion of “good”
I agree with you completely(dd214). Also about the point made earlier about “special treatment”, yes I can see that. Yes, Marines will abuse the system as they always have. There’s always going to be those few bad seeds. However, good/fair homosexual Marines will just be looking to be treated the same as everyone else, not special. To (e6), as long as you don’t let your personal views get in the way of your ability to lead as a SNCO and you can be fair to ALL Marines and not be biased, then that’s fine. I’m not trying to change people’s views.
I will have a problem if I see Marines being passed over for boards and such just because they’re homosexual and a particular Officer/SNCO has it out to ruin them. I’m sure it’s going to happen. Some Marines that were viewed as exemplary before (board material) deciding to come out will be pinned as terds after and it’s going to affect them on a professional level. I’ll fully support someone who throws down the EO card on that instance. I WON’T support someone who uses that card every time they get bad Pro/Cons who was clearly a bad Marine in the first place
URGENT! Alert National Geographic—comments 4 through 8 prove some dinosaurs still roam the earth.
Ooops, spoke too soon…tell the Geographic a whole herd showed up. Bring big nets….and the giant Anti Stupid pills.
This coverf makes it sound like all marines are gay,if you wanted to run this article all the times should have had the same cover with all branch service uniforms displayed on the cover. i am not against anyones rights, but that doesn;t give you the right to disrespect mine.
BLUF: I am glad I retired. That was not an earthquake we had a while back – that was Chesty rolling over in his grave. The times has eaten a retard sandwich in publishing this article. I, with the Gunny above, will never buy another issue. This makes me want to puke! Really – put that on the front page – what were you thinking? And the b-day balls, good luck with that too, and the beatings to follow! They’re coming, don’t tell yourself they are not.
Believe it or not we know who was and wasn’t gay in the military already, wether that gay military member thought no one new we do. I was just better, think of all the tax payers dollar going to be spent on new training,publications,upgrades to bath rooms and showers. No open shower stalls or toliet areas to make everyone more comportable.
I bet when (Cpl says) comes out and tells everyone he or she is gay half of his/her command will say I already new it. Why would you need to do that, do you think we should have gay military day and hold a parade? Just do your job and be glad your not on the unemployment line.
I am an USMC SSgt that works on an Army base with Army Rangers, tankers, soldiers alike. I have laughed at the cover of MANY army “Times” over the last few years. NEVER have I seen soldiers laugh so hard they are almost in tears until now….
Nothing against homosexuality in the military but the perception your cover gives about the ENTIRE Marine Corps is truly shameful..
I really appreciate the fact the the Title and Cover incinuate all Marines are gay (please note the sarcasim). Additionally, why are we empowering gay Marines when we are all JUST Marines…at least that was the DADT breif I was given. This article is disgraceful. Why not write a headlining article about Marines who cheat on their spouses and who they do cheat. Pathetic.
This image on the front of this rag reminds me of something a SMMC said to a group of Marines once: “I wouldn’t wipe my a$$ with that magazine.”. Well I sure wouldn’t waste my money on it for that purpose either. Congratulations MCTimes. And a special congratulations to all of the homosexual (are we allowed to say homosexual still?) Marines who serve our country. You’ve single handedly forced your private sexual preferences into the public spotlight. I can’t wait for everyone else to start chanting “I’m straight get over it!”. Get over yourselves. We already know you’re gay most likely and haven’t said anything because we simply don’t damn care.
Each time I see a new posting to this (straight Marines) it reminds me that we are now the minority in this case. As others have said, “We don’t care” “You make us sick” “Keep it to yourselves, eventhough we already know”, etc, etc. Moreover, how about the BC who has to deal with a He said/He said cat fight? I’d be retiring if that issue came into my office. This is a discrace to those who have died for this organization and this country. Forcing us to accept your now spotlighted ways is a violation of not only our 1st Amendments rights in protesting back – but in being the minoiryt now, you can be rest assured that if we pop off a comment and you get your feelings hurt, we will get the boot. But you can rump ride your partner to and from the b-day each year knowing that you have pissed all over our beloved Corps. Get over that!
While I was in I served honorably and was discharged as such. I served alongside 6 Marines that were known homosexuals even though they tried to hide it, 2 of which were in Iraq when I was with the grunts. Everyone knew, we joked about it, and in the end no one cared. They weren’t running around shitting out rainbows like the bigots like to think, they were normal guys to us.
Also a side note, some of the most homosexual things I have ever seen happened at boot camp, and were part of the training regime. How’s that for your beloved corps?
Gents, this isn’t going to make homosexual sodomy any less vile or damaging to the rectum. I assume that homosexuals are still banned for life from giving blood along with intravenous drug users, or is that policy too insensitive to continue to enforce?
@ noone cares – there is a reason you are no longer in! If grab ass games went on like that, it’s b/c HATs we garbage or the NCOs in charge of the training were garbage and did to others what was done to them. That’s hazing! Servicemen and women get out with a bad attitude b/c they were not taking care of, or their little feelings got hurt b/c they could not voice their opinons – hence this mess! You served fine, congradulations and thanks for shopping. For those that stay – the GySgt above and the SSgt on the Army base, how about what they are feeling and now have to deal with. This is BS! As I said before, its not about being a bigot, its about voicing our rights under Amendment 1, which we protect – all of us. Keep your trash to yourselves. We don’t care and don’t want it forced on us. Nor do we need to sit in class rooms getting sensativity training b/c some is thin skinned. Get some Rhino lining, strap your pack on and keep moving!
“But you can rump ride your partner to and from the b-day each year knowing that you have pissed all over our beloved Corps.”
Really? How much more of a bigot could you be? Educated much?
Does this mean I get service related disability because I shared my foxhole with a friend in Afghanistan?
@ John – yeah I’m educated bitch! I gotta a BS in Management and a Masters in Homeland Security. Any other questions you may have stored in your frozen pea size brain!?
Hilarious to see a complaint about 1st amendment rights from someone opposing DADT repeal. All this does is is allow people to say they are gay without fear of being discharged for it.
So many people saying “we don’t care if you’re gay!”, yet, you support a rule where if someone reveals that, they should be discharged? Logic fail.
You idiots should learn how to read. The title doesn’t make the whole Marine Corps seem gay. That’s what the subtitle is for [clarification].
@ linda smith – You’re the most ignorant bigot I’ve ever come across. I’m pretty sure the article does not depict homosexual shower acts. And most gay men do not cross dress. I guess that would make a a raging bull dyke if i wore my dress blues with pants and brought my girlfriend to my ball. GO FUCK YOURSELF. You probably already do, that’s why you’re mad about homosexuals being ale to come out.
Msgt. Obviously you havent had a life since you retired. You should get one instead of “exercising your 1st amendment rights” 457980987645 times on this thread. We are forced to accept your ways. we have to sit in classes to to hear about you guys raping people, beating your wives, and commiting adultery. KiLL
Hey stuttering stavros, whatever that is, its not a complaint you DOLT! Its a fact. They cried foul and got what they wanted – good for them. But if someone on the other side of the fence says anything contrary to the repeal of DADT, then they end up being a bigot, racist, etc and might end up getting booted out. But that is what the 1st Amendment is for, absent the fact that we forgo some of these rights in uniform. Not just for one party or person to advocate their thoughts and not allow another. I’m thinking Dr. King covered this. This is a topic about good order and discipline in the Armed Forces as a whole. DADT worked fine my entire 20, but now – b/c someone had an idea (don’t do that!) this is the end state. And what really cracks me up is the fact that if we say anything we are bigots and racist. Eh, no, we are voicing our opinion. Put in ear plugs if you don’t like it, change the channel, leave, etc.
@lady leatherneck I think I’m in love!
@lady leatherneck do you kiss your girlfriend with that pottymouth? Still don’t care.
JNWarren Your assumption is correct only if that Homosexual has engaged into multiple sex partners in the past 12 months same as straight men/women who engages in multiple sex partner in the past 12 months.
“Actually, I believe the title is referencing an popular ACT-UP/ Queer Nation protest chant from the 90s. “We’re here, we’re queer, get over it.” It’s meant to harken back to a time of confrontation about basic civil rights.”
Actually, the slogan was “We’re here. We’re queer. Get used to it” NOT get over it.
“Its understandable that this would totally fly over the heads of most straight readers. Queer history isn’t something you really look up unless you’re part of the demographic. ”
Before you insult someone for not knowing “Queer history” make sure you know it yourself, ya know, so you don’t look like a preachy moron.
We’re here, and we’re going to date openly while we serve our country (just like you heteros get the “special privilege” of doing).
Don’t like it? Don’t date us.
We’re queer. We’ve always been here. Get used to it. Or get out. There is no room in the Corps for bigots and cowards. If having a homosexual in your unit is detrimental to you to the point that you cannot do your job effectively, you don’t deserve to wear the uniform anyway.
Equal civil rights under secular law
“I’m sure the great majority of people we’re at war with right now will also embrace your “lifestyle choice”, too. How exactly do you stick openly gay servicemembers into nations that want you executed just for living?
“Hey al Zawahiri! We’re gay, we’re occupying your nation, get over it!” That’ll go over well. Or do you want to force them to accept your ways, too?”
^ So how do you think radical Middle Eastern nationalists feel about WOMEN serving? We should let the enemy dictate our ranks now?
That’s the most stupid argument I’ve ever heard against DADT repeal. Seriously.
Lady Leatherneck – I got a life. For your SA, It gets me $6 digits a years and 90% disability for numerous tours in Iraq. Moving right along…, this is a society driven idea that has now made its way into the ranks. Fine. But what everyone is saying, is do it with tact. Everyone has their opinions and they are entitled to them. That’s why we do what we do and/or did. To put something like that on the front page of the times, shows a lack of respect for the Corps and those who serve, have served, and who have died for the Corps; and, it becomes as offense to a straight Marine, as the “N” word is to an African American, or the “F” word to a gay person.
“To put something like that on the front page of the times, shows a lack of respect for the Corps and those who serve, have served, and who have died for the Corps; and, it becomes as offense to a straight Marine, as the “N” word is to an African American, or the “F” word to a gay person.”
The only people that will be offended are people who don’t support equal civil rights for all Americans, and if you don’t support equal civil rights, you don’t deserve to call yourself a Marine.
What about all the gay and lesbian Marines who have have served and died for a country that continues to treat them like second class citizens?
Talk about disrespect.
“(just like you heteros get the “special privilege” of doing).”
@ maverick does your shortening of the word heterosexuals allow heterosexuals to continue calling homosexuals “homos” or is that still offensive to the gays? Just wondering what us “heteros” are supposed to know to tip-toe around your feelings, our moral foundation, and political strong arms ethically.
“@ maverick does your shortening of the word heterosexuals allow heterosexuals to continue calling homosexuals “homos” or is that still offensive to the gays? Just wondering what us “heteros” are supposed to know to tip-toe around your feelings, our moral foundation, and political strong arms ethically.”
^ Awwww, did I offend your delicate sensibilities? *eyeroll*
You’re right, I should have spelled out “heterosexual” and it was lazy of me not to. Didn’t know you guys wanted to police our grammar AND our love lives.
The only thing you’re supposed to know is that we deserve to be treated the same as you. No better and no worse. Keep that in mind and we’ll get along swimmingly, as queers in the military have been doing for, I dunno, THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
You’re like, so awesome for claifying. Thanks pumpkin.
You’re welcome, cupcake.
Haha awesome. Cupcakes and fruitcakes get along fine, see?
Nice quote Maverick. BTW is that a call sign? Oh, and I know of those who have served. And you are completely wrong WRT people being offended not supporting equal rights. The offense is to a persons own personal likes, dislikes, how they were raised and what they believe in. Yes, some might be bigots and racists, but he majority are just voicing their opinions as to how a particular situation discusted them. Nothing more.
“Haha awesome. Cupcakes and fruitcakes get along fine, see?”
^ Just goes to show that a little humor goes a long way. Do I think gay and lesbian Marines are going to get ripped on for being queer? Sure. Do I think that once given the freedom to speak openly without being discharged, they’ll give as good as they get in the smartassery department? Of course.
“Nice quote Maverick. BTW is that a call sign? Oh, and I know of those who have served. And you are completely wrong WRT people being offended not supporting equal rights. The offense is to a persons own personal likes, dislikes, how they were raised and what they believe in. Yes, some might be bigots and racists, but he majority are just voicing their opinions as to how a particular situation discusted them. Nothing more.”
^ Do they even let people take that call sign after Tom Cruise?
Since when does one’s personal likes and dislikes (especially pertaining to religious beliefs) give someone the right to dictate how someone *else* lives their life? If you think gay sex is disgusting, by all means abstain. But homosexuality (despite the suffix) isn’t about just who you sleep with, it’s about who you fall in love with and raise kids with too.
I find religious fundamentalists who cherrypick their scriptures to form a platform of moral superiority offensive, but you don’t see me petitioning to get them kicked out of the Corps for it.
As a retired SNCO; I think its funny that all you “Good SNCO’s” can find time to judge and post your bigoted comments, but YOU are also the ones that routinely participate in and turn a blind eye to Adultery and many other “acts” (While Deployed). Too many in the Corps willing to judge, without reflecting on their own conduct! Gays have been in the corps (and all of the other services for a longtime), Certain Marine Corps Occupational Fields are WIDELY known for the prevalence of GAY service members; similarly the treatment of GAY MEN, has always been disproportionate that of GAY WOMEN! (ALL MARINE SOFTBALL ANYONE) – Read or Re-Read Conduct Unbecoming by Randy Schilts!
There are many comments to the effect that the title of the article makes it sound like all Marines are gay. Even if that were the case, the USMC would still be the best, most bad ass military fighting machine in the world.
Its about “how” you perform on duty not “with whom” you perform off duty.
You shouldn’t get mad just because they don’t want to date your sister.
“So if there were some way of arranging that a state, or an army, could be made up entirely of pairs of lovers, it is impossible to imagine a finer population. They would avoid all dishonour, and compete with one another for glory: in battle, this kind of army, though small, fighting side by side could conquer virtually the whole world. After all, a lover would sooner be seen by anyone deserting his post or throwing away his weapons, rather than by his boyfriend.” – Plato [on homosexuals in the military]
Ah, yes. The ‘special treatment’ argument. You know, the last time we heard the ‘special privileges’ argument was when you guys were arguing AGAINST the racial integration of US forces.
It was also trotted out to argue against the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act.
Here’s a clue – over the entrance to the Supreme Court, it does NOT say ‘Equal Justice Before Law. Unless you’re black or gay.’
If serving with the good men and women of this country who happen to be gay makes you feel weird and icky, you might want to consider your own latent homosexuality as the root cause.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) wrote: “To put something like that on the front page of the times, shows a lack of respect for the Corps and those who serve, have served, and who have died for the Corps; and, it becomes as offense to a straight Marine, as the “N” word is to an African American, or the “F” word to a gay person.”
Interesting that you should bring up “African American”, as the opponents of a racially integrated military used largely the same arguments being used to oppose a sexual-orientation integrated military.
The Irony is so strong you could frame a building with it.
Post number 27 by: Unimpressed: I love this person, this person is exactly how people should be, this whole issue is so ridiculous and it is best expressed by Unimpressed! Why? because in their own words: “We already know you’re gay most likely and haven’t said anything because we simply don’t damn care.”
why should you care? it doesn’t affect your relationship, it doesn’t mean you love your spouse or boyfriend or girlfriend any less, your wedding ring isn’t going to mean something different to your spouse so why should you care about someone else’s relationship? it’s non of your business! If the soldier beside you on the front line, has your back, has your trust and is laying his or her life on the line along side yours, then what’s the deal?
This is exactly what gay and lesbian people want, it to be NO BIG DEAL! Just do your job, go on like you always have. you know there are gays in military and you know to be there they have to hold their own, they’re serving and giving their all, just like you. Dont make this a bid deal.
They dont “special” treatment, just equal treatment. you dont get kicked out for loving your wife or your bf/gf, they shouldn’t either. you didn’t wake up one morning in your life and think to yoursef: I wonder what it would be like to love someone of the same gender, no, you did what came natural to you… so are they. their sexual identity is not a choice and all they ask is they dont get kicked out of the military service for being who they are.
So, please dont treat them any different than you treat your friends, your fellow soldiers. If you take your gf or bf to a birthday ball then why should a gay man or woman be denied that same right? Abolish the ball if you can’t have respect for someone different than you are, but we have a high standard for our soldiers, we expect honor and truth and respect for all people and for the most part, you all show that everyday and in everyway.. KUDOS!
To Unimpressed who wrote post 27: This isn’t an issue to you because you have never disrespected anyone who was gay, you always treated them the same and it’s no damn big deal and who damn cares to you… GOD I wish everyone thought the same way as you. You are so comfortable with your own sexuality because you know who you are and your own sexuality can’t be threatened.
The sad truth is not everyone thinks like you. To some, they welcome the opportunity to proclaim their moral superiority. They can feel better about themselves because they despise someone else, they can belittle them, mock them, hate them, hurt them and it makes them feel good. These people are self righteous and they need the “packs of wolves” that associate with them to empower them and make them feel good about themselves!
It’s true thing magazine should not have been so in your face, that was really uncalled for, but if you’ll read through these comments here. Posts by the clergy and leaders in the military you can clearly see where people do want to impose their own narrow minded views onto everyone else. They like being able to demonize a gay man because it makes them feel bigger and better and more powerful but it’s wrong.
None of you people who want to judge these gay men and women who serve will ever understand the simple truth, you dont choose your own sexuality or who you love.. otherwise if you did.. you would all be bisexual because you are implying that you yourself could choose to fall in love with someone of your own gender! DUH! think about it before you are so quick to judge.. if you couldn’t ever choose to sleep with another man and it could never be a choice for you, then why do you think it could be a choice for a gay man?
…and for all of you who think that gay people are after “special” treatment, no, they’re not. They would love to be able to live as quietly and unnoticed as possible with the person they love than to have you spewing your unkind and hateful remarks at them, no one would choose that! They just want to be able to live without YOU shoving your own views onto their personal lives and preventing them from being with they one they love. YOU get to be with the one you love and they want and deserve the same.
You all equate this as being a purely sexual thing, but is sex really what binds you to your spouse? really? you dont love them? They’ll be happy to know that, want they! No, I think not, I think you love your spouses and these people only want to be able to do the same, have a life filled with love, good friends and good family… one day die an old happy American because they served with honor and the country stood by them and all of their fellow soldiers couldn’t give a good damn who they chose to love, because it simply didn’t matter!
For those of you complaining, do you not understand that you GIVE UP your constitutional rights when you enlist in the military.
The Military is NOT an equal opportunity employer;
You can’t be an idiot (fail an ASVAB)
You can’t be a fatbody
You can’t be handicapped
You must pass a PT test (be physically fit)
…. I can go on…
With that said, I’m glad I served but I wouldn’t want to be serving in the corps now. I can see a lot of good marines choosing a DD214 over re-enlistment.
The corps will never be the same.
What an interesting take you have on things.
So, you gave up your right to vote when you joined the Corps?
You must have given up your right to petition the government and your freedom of religion when you joined the Corps, right?
Maybe you didn’t.
I could go on…
Interesting that you’d refuse to serve because you can’t discriminate any more. Guess that means you’re more loyal to your self-righteous sense of bigotry, and your bankrupted morality than you are to the Nation.
That’s what’s disgusting, pal. It’s the cowardice.
It’s pretty clear that you’re just…*afraid* to serve with ‘the gays’. Or, is it something deeper than that?
What you’re failing to realize is that it’s a good thing that the corps will never be the same, and that our services already have quite a few gay people in them. That includes the Corps.
Your argument dies on the sword of reason. It dies doubly and with ignominy for every honorable act of service to the Nation performed by gay soldiers.
Mr. Fred. – you’re right the military is not an equal opportunity employer and you do give up various rights when you serve.
The civilian leadership and the VAST majority of the American population feel that the DADT is a relic of the past. THEY are our bosses. THEY are the ones we serve. Get the fuck over it, because, as you say… U Signed the Motherfucking Contract.
Homosexuality is an anxiety disorder where the child failed to adequately bond with the same sex parent. The desire of acceptance and affection from the same sexed parent is translated to sexual attracttion when puberty arises.
To treat it as “normal” is an anathema to the homosexual and cruel. It is treatable and correctable.
Do you have freedom of speech? Do you have the right to not be searched (barracks inspections?), Do you have the right to a trial with a jury of your peers? NO you do not.
What happens if you’re a fat body, can’t pass your PFT? Should we let you in even though your’re an ASVAB failure?
Did you know that sodomy is even unlawful between a man and a woman in the military? Are they going to change this a well?
It’s not that I’m afraid of the gays, Flamboyancy goes against professionalism in uniform.
Because you like putting your pee-pee in another man’s bum, that does not entitle you to special rights. Simple as that.
MarineTime should loose contract with USMC
The cover insinuates the entire Marine Corps is gay. Really! I had no problem with the new policy until now. I could care less who is gay but why is it necessary to parade it like this. This is crazy and just unnecessary. Gay Marines want to be treated equal, so why no act it. You don’t see cover pages saying “We’re Straight Get Over It!” this is stupid! Personally I feel this is a cover page the Times came up with to sell copies, I do not think this is the feelings of gay Marines, well I hope not anyway. Do what you got to do and get on with it. I’m pretty sure Marines are not going to start showing up to work in rainbow colored uniforms, Although we may have to be more specific about rainbow gear for pt..lol
As a Christian, this is clearly a moral issue. So here is the problem: As a leader of Marines, I carry the responsibility of adhering to, exampling, and expecting my Marines to hold to the highest standards of conduct and morals. Now I am required to continue in that responsibility, but ignore the completely immoral conduct going on around us. It demonstrates inconsitency, and ultimately undermines my ability to lead.
Romans Chapter One unmistakably identifies homosexuality as an abomination to God.
I anticipate that history will tell the story of the irreparable damage that will be done to good order and discipline in our military.
‘To treat it as “normal” is an anathema to the homosexual and cruel. It is treatable and correctable.’
^ Tell that to the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association.
You already think you know more than the American people, do you think you know more than the medical professionals now too?
I call bullshit.
I am a ginger who has been discriminated and verbally abused for way too long. I demand rights. Just kidding, I am a ginger but I laugh it off, throw an insult back where it came from, and go back to work. My choices are dye my hair or live with it. What I don’t do is cry about it like a fag.
I commend Gen. Amos for taking a stand against congress, and even though he is ordered to support his CICs order, I know he’s on our side. This WILL harm unit cohesion. Even if the polls are correct (which, anyone serving knows way more Marines oppose the repeal than polls indicate) @ least 43% oppose the repeal. Nearly 1 in 2 people in a room now are unhappy with the situation. If more than 1 in 2 Marines are gay then I suppose cohesion could improve, otherwise this is a terrible day.
“Romans Chapter One unmistakably identifies homosexuality as an abomination to God.”
^ Do you hold to Levitical law as well?
Eaten any good shellfish lately? Worn two different fibers in the same garment?
I’ll just do my Christian duty and point you to Matthew 23:27:
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean.”
And to the part of Leviticus everyone seems to forget to mention (19:18):
“You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I AM THE LORD.”
This is gay, not the homosexual gay, the stupid gay
I think its great that the gays want to be recognized. I think they should pay more taxes for their way of life. I think they should be held accountable for the cost of changes we are experiencing in our economy. It’s not equal by any means, the medical ramifications of being gay by exposing straight men and women to sexually transmitted diceases like AIDS is enough to be prosecuted. So if your gay you should pay for the separate restroom facilities, and other accommodations to separate the diverse beliefs. I don’t want to experience the illnesses associated with being gay. I want assurances that I won’t be exposed to AIDS.
that one was a little funny…
“I think its great that the gays want to be recognized. I think they should pay more taxes for their way of life.”
Like all the special taxes heterosexuals have to pay for the privilege of being straight? What, you want us to wear pink triangles too?
“I think they should be held accountable for the cost of changes we are experiencing in our economy.”
^ Let me guess, we’re responsible for natural disasters as well. Let me just wave my fairy wand and crash the economy – whoops, did I do that? Go ahead and keep on with your bad self, Sergeant. You just make the queers look better and better.
“It’s not equal by any means, the medical ramifications of being gay by exposing straight men and women to sexually transmitted diceases like AIDS is enough to be prosecuted. So if your gay you should pay for the separate restroom facilities, and other accommodations to separate the diverse beliefs. I don’t want to experience the illnesses associated with being gay. I want assurances that I won’t be exposed to AIDS.”
^ I don’t want to go out on a limb and say you’re an uninformed moron, but…
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeere’s your sign.
I think that yes homosexuals should be let into the service. they live in America and should have the opportunity to serve there country. The issue with me is the diverse arrangements of gay and straight. Things like boot camp, schools, and even the M.O.S. Another thing will be how gay service members can talk about life problems with there peers and commanders.
“Romans Chapter One unmistakably identifies homosexuality as an abomination to God.”
Yeah. Not everybody subscribes to your religion. Your religion, thank God, is not the arbiter of what is or isn’t acceptable in this society.
Your religion also commands that you stone your wife to death if she’s wearing two different kinds of cloth. I’m doubting you’ve done that. The Bible is also full of justifications for slavery. We don’t do that any more, either.
So…maybe pointing to the Bible doesn’t exactly win you the argument.
“Homosexuality is an anxiety disorder where the child failed to adequately bond with the same sex parent. The desire of acceptance and affection from the same sexed parent is translated to sexual attracttion when puberty arises.
To treat it as “normal” is an anathema to the homosexual and cruel. It is treatable and correctable.”
Yeah…you sound more gay than Michelle Bachman’s husband.
Hey MSGT- When I was out on MSG duty the only ones coming down with the HIV were the straight Marines banging hookers without a rubber. Or…were they just secretly gay?
Look. The order has been given. quit bitching and do your jobs. I swear the amount of pissing and moaning about something this insignificant is just depressing. Especially from those that claim the mantle of “senior leaders”
I don’t want to pay the tax dollars for the added medical costs. If two men want to swap spit, have at it. It’s a documented fact that gays transmit a deadly virus. I think sexual persuasion should be printed dog tags, that way the corpsman can take extra precautions when treating someone they may or may not have Aids. You can justify with all the sarcasm you want, but at the end of the day, I think it’s great that all you gays are coming out. Why should the rest of society pay your medical premiums for being gay. It’s your decision and you should pay more for health insurance, be subjected to more health checkups, and provide for the added expense for your own accommodations, I don’t want to pay for it.
“Things like boot camp, schools, and even the M.O.S.”
^ Every single person reading this article has probably had high school gym. If you have, you have showered and changed with gays or lesbians. If you survived high school gym without being sexually molested by a gay or lesbian person, you should understand how unfounded and ridiculous the “bathroom argument” is.
If anything, the military should be cracking down on the levels of *heterosexual* rape in its ranks, considering that 1 in 3 women in the military has been sexually assaulted by their fellow (male) soldiers.
“Another thing will be how gay service members can talk about life problems with there peers and commanders.”
^ Most people who are gay in the military are already “out” to trusted people that they serve with. DADT repeal just means gay and lesbian soldiers have more opportunities to discuss their personal lives without deceit, improving morale and trust in the unit. It’ll also give LGBT people more visibility to show that we are not the boogeymen people like the Sarge here make us out to be.
It doesn’t matter whether you’re straight, it just matters whether you can shoot straight.
Regardless of what is put into effect, Marines will continue to do what they do and say what they say. Marines are people. The population as a whole is not past racism or discrimination so policys do not accomplish what people believe. I hear racial slurs on a daily basis and have yet to see any action taken because no one at the level where it takes place really cares. If anyone is so delusional to believe that a repeal will change the way people behave it might be a good idea to take a walk around and try to shed the naiveity.
The real problem is that straight Marines see gay Marines as a catalyst to a potential rape scenario, awkward unrequited sexual desire scenario, or just accidently witnessing dude on dude butt sex. Few people care about more than avoidance of the aforementioned scenarios. If gay people would avoid flamboyance and unwarranted sexual advances/public display of affection this whole thing would cease to be any sort of a “big deal.”
Msgt retired – I suggest some research on sexually transmitted diseases. If you hold a firm belief that you can contract aids from a restroom toilet or shower it is quite obvious that you are an idiot clinging to outdated thinking. If someone you know contracted the HIV virus it was likely from a spouse that could not deal with monogamy.
I like Fred. “Pen-is in bum!” Classic brother, absolutely classic. To douche bag mcghee who did not get the reference of being offended by the “N” to African Americans – it’s like this – A change occurred for the good then as it is. This is however a bigger issue, given DOMA, Aids, TriCare, Benefits, etc. SSgt 0313 brings up a good point with good order and discipline
“As a Christian, this is clearly a moral issue. So here is the problem: As a leader of Marines, I carry the responsibility of adhering to, exampling, and expecting my Marines to hold to the highest standards of conduct and morals. Now I am required to continue in that responsibility, but ignore the completely immoral conduct going on around us. It demonstrates inconsitency, and ultimately undermines my ability to lead.”
Add to this, this is a defect not a choice. You don’t wake up one morning and say, Self and you know its you b/c you recognize your voice and you are in our own skivies – I think I’ll take the royal pen-is in the bum! NO! This is a crossed wire issue up stairs. I refuse to believe that it is a choice.
If that is the case, pencils make spelling errors, guns kill people, congress is on top of things, and our economy is booming!
Really , this whole thing reeks of Progressive/ Liberal BS . Gays have been serving for thousands of years , does it really matter if it’s advertised . All this does is bring in more divide in an already divided Nation . Don’t ask / Don’t tell was working just fine . This is nothing more than political payback for votes .
If there is no difference then why the special training required for everyone before all this openness . Are homosexuals being sent to special training to understand why heteros think that way .
As long as you can do your job and have my back I don’t give a rip who you spend your liberty with .
Can’t wait to see what happens when the 3rd Fire team Leader falls in love with the M60 Team leader who is cheating on him with the Motor section Leader ..
Drama in the Squad Bay .
“It’s your decision and you should pay more for health insurance, be subjected to more health checkups, and provide for the added expense for your own accommodations, I don’t want to pay for it.”
^ What added accomodations would those be? The simple accomodation that says our fellow soldiers (brothers-in-arms, if you will, and those who are supposed to watch our backs and be our comrades unto death) can’t verbally or physically assault us for our sexual orientation without repercussion anymore?
Oh thank you, Massah! I ezz so happy! Thank you!
(Stay classy Sarge.)
@Big Toe – well said. It comes down to votes.
What a bad decision by Marine Corps Times to not only publish this article, but to put it on the front page. This has got to be the worst front page article ever printed by Marine Corps Times. Everyone knows and is aware of the change coming, but putting it on the front page and blasting it to the world is not the way to bring about the change. I am totally disgusted by the front page advertisement. I already got a few emails about the front page from counterparts and civilians. Bad choice of words, bad layout choice, and a terrible way to showcase the change. I accept the change but this is not the way to go about showcasing the change. What a sad day for Marine Corps Times and the entire Marine Corps.
“Gays have been serving for thousands of years , does it really matter if it’s advertised.”
^ It does if you want to have any kind of romantic relationship during your term of service. It’s not about “advertisement”, it’s about letting people sleep with whomever they like without fear of discharge.
“Don’t ask/Don’t tell was working just fine.”
^ Spoken like a straight guy who is completely unaffected by the “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. It’ll be interesting to see how many GAY soldiers would say that DADT was “working just fine” for them, seeing as it forced them into celibacy and dishonesty.
“Are homosexuals being sent to special training to understand why heteros think that way.”
^ It doesn’t matter why you think that way. Do I have to take a class to understand the way racists think to know that it’s fucking stupid?
I have been out for a few years , when I was in Marines were not permitted to bring their girlfriends into the barracks , with that I have one question , since Gays can now serve openly that means they can probably bring their lovers or partners into their barracks since they are of the same sex . Is the military now going to permit hetero Marines to bring their opposite sex partners into the barracks .
If not they are opening themselves up to a DISCRIMINATION SUIT .. And a just suit at that .
Do we yet know what the promotion quota will be for gay officers and enlisted members? Preference for their minority status over performance. And how soon will there be a requirement for the first gay Marine Corps Commandant? Colin Powell once said that he was outraged that gay would be equated with racial equality. The Marine Times just never got the picture. In a life and death profession, performance ought to always be the only precedent for promotion and leadership position. However, the gay lobby just as much as the female lobby will make sure that is not the case. Woe to America’s defense.
Here Yup, did some of that research you recommended.
There are so many ways to contract AIDS and HIV that it’s frightening when you think about it. Here are the most common:
1. Unprotected Sex – the #1 transmitter of AIDS and HIV, though that is being disputed currently. Unprotected Sex with anyone can lead to HIV, but also remember that it won’t always lead to it. Generally, the rule with STD’s is that one person is usually the infected carrier…regardless, always use protection when having sex. Most particularly, oral sex will DEFINITELY transmit the disease…the genitalia of both men and women are among the most germ-ridden areas of the body…oral sex will transmit the infection faster than most other methods, since there is no real contraceptive that can be used.
2. Drug Use – this is being disputed currently against Unprotected Sex as the #1 transmitter of AIDS. Sharing of drug needles is the most common transmission…needless to say, the needle goes into the blood stream of one person, and then if the needle is shared with other people, germs and infections from one person are spread to the other. While the direct cause of HIV is still not currently known (believe it or not), it is a fact that sharing of drug needles seems to breed HIV among users.
3. Blood transfusion/mixing – It is never safe to touch someone’s open wound…you don’t know if the person has AIDS or HIV. A popular thing for kids to do way back when was to pick their scabs off and rub the sores together so that they would become ‘blood brothers’. It is things like that which can cause AIDS…the direct contact of one person’s open wound to an infected or potentially infected person’ blood. In the 80’s blood reserves were not checked for AIDS, since AIDS was still a young and relatively underestimated disease…many blood transfusions led to infection. Now, all hospitals and blood banks are required to screen donors for infections, but there is always the possibility that a blood transfusion will cause AIDS.
4. Kissing – disputed, but AIDS and HIV CAN be carried by saliva…kissing an infected person is dangerous. While a simple kiss on the cheek or non-mouth kiss is fine, open mouthed kissing can lead to the transfer of the disease. Also remember that when you brush your teeth, you create hundreds of tiny cuts on your gums…kissing an infected person who brushed their teeth recently is inviting a transmission.
5. Sharing hygiene tools – as stated above, sharing a toothbrush is a very bad idea…whether infected with HIV or not, the cuts created in the mouth of the person do bleed, and are open cuts…blood and infection will get caught in the bristles of the brush. Sharing shaving razors is also ill-advised…especially manual razors, as opposed to electric, since you are more prone to bloody cuts while shaving. I don’t know but sharing the same toilet could be construed as hygiene tool, what do you think? How about when someone scratches their ass raw and makes it bleed, can that be cause for alarm?
What you should remember is that you won’t get AIDS or HIV by sitting next to someone with the disease, holding their hand, touching them or talking to them. Although it is easy to transmit, it is difficult to catch, but you must make sure that you are careful at all times…when you meet someone, namely a new friend or a date, it is important that you know their sexual history before you get romantically involved. If you trust the person, and they are open with their relationship history with you, then you can rely on that, but always remember that if you have doubts, ask your partner or friend (and you, for that matter) to get tested.
How about this research, According to a recent article in Rueters nationwide, new HIV infection rates remained stable between 2006 and 2009, but increased by nearly 50 percent for young black gay and bisexual men.
According to the article, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recently reported that new HIV infections have remained stable at a rate of 50,000 infections per year. However, young (those between the ages of 13 and 29 years) men you have sex with men are the population most affected. “HIV remains one of the most glaring health disparities in this country,” said Dr. Kevin Fenton, director of the CDC’s National Center for HIV/AIDS. “We saw increases of up to 48 percent – nearly a 50 percent increase between 2006 and 2009.” According to Fenton, the explanation for this disparity is not well understood, but the CDC will need to focus on areas where HIV is most heavily concentrated in order to reduce these disparities.
Last summer, the White House outlined a new National HIV/AIDS strategy that calls for better methods to gather data about infected populations and increase preventive tools that have been shown to decrease the likelihood of HIV transmission (Steenhuysen 8/03).
On a side note about the layout of the cover . If the Marine Corps Times is a sister mag to the ” Times ” or ” Newsweek ” rags I would expect no different . Both are in the bag for the Progressive / Liberal movement .
Shame on them .
@Maverick – I’m guessing your gay? So you think DADT and its new ruling is ok, and the classes we have to attend so we don’t rain on your parade is fine? But gays and lesbians don’t have to receive any training as to how this change affects straights. That is one way liberal BS! I, like others, now can’t say the word gay or fag, eventhough the first means happy and the later is English for a cigarette. But I doubt that will get anyone off at NJP or aquitted at a court.
“In a life and death profession, performance ought to always be the only precedent for promotion and leadership position.”
^ Considering homosexuals have always been some of the the best warriors on the planet since ancient times (Google “Amazons” and “Sacred Band of Thebes”) based on their military merit, NOT their sexuality, I can’t help but think arguments like this come from people who are afraid the queers are going to out-Marine you.
Nope , not afraid of being out -Marined at all and I consider that as much of an insult as a homosexual does being called a ” Queer ”
I haven’t seen anyone on here say that a homosexual could preform honorably . But I have seen some legit questions being asked , thats the whole issue with this people ask legit questions and others had rather insult than answer .
@Maverick – yeah I think it was the Romans who used to corn hole the wounded so they could tell the tails of being violated like a parking meter back hm, if they lived through the train being run on them. Aewsome. I’m thinking that’s a war crime absent the century.
Sarge – Actually I’m a lesbian.
Oh BOO HOO on your DADT repeal class. Jesus crispy Christ. I’m supposed to feel sorry that folks had to sit through a Powerpoint presentation about how not to be a homophobic jackass, while gays and lesbians had to serve in silence for *decades* while under constant threat of dishonorable discharge?
Grow up sir.
“But gays and lesbians don’t have to receive any training as to how this change affects straights.”
So how does it affect you? You’re not gay, it’s not about you. You talk like you expect Marines to start walking around in pink spandex cut-offs or something. Gay or not, an American soldier is an American soldier, and the queer ones are just as capable of conducting themselves with professionalism as the straight ones.
“I, like others, now can’t say the word gay or fag, eventhough the first means happy and the later is English for a cigarette. But I doubt that will get anyone off at NJP or aquitted at a court.”
^ If you use those words in those specific contexts, you should be fine.
If you use them to attack gay and lesbian soldiers whose only crime is giving up their liberty and comfort to serve alongside you, you should be hauled up on discrimination/harassment charges.
@ Big Toe – well said. Now that they got what they wanted and we start asking serious hard line questions, they tap dance around questions and call us racist bigots. Not the case. As you noted, all can serve honorable – but there are questions and concerns that need addressed, and the mind numbing DADT training is not going to get it done.
– Nope , not afraid of being out -Marined at all and I consider that as much of an insult as a homosexual does being called a ” Queer ” –
Good to hear that you’re not afraid of a little healthy competition. Gays will be ranked meritoriously, just like any other soldier. That’s the meaning of EQUAL treatment.
“I haven’t seen anyone on here say that a homosexual could preform honorably . But I have seen some legit questions being asked , thats the whole issue with this people ask legit questions and others had rather insult than answer.”
And what legitimate questions are those? I’ve answered every question I’ve seen that looked even remotely legitimate to me. (Except for Sarge’s “AIDS scare” posts, which I find too ludicrous to deign a response.)
Hold up Mav … Why you got to be so ” Agressive ” this isn’t a Moveon.org rally . And if you think this doesn’t affect EVERYONE involved then your dumber than your sudden outburst . It does affect everyone in some way or another and I don’t mean that Marines will be dressing up in pink spandex , very classy there Sis .
I’m no longer active but I do have a son that is active and YES I have some legit questions .
really comment 73, I’m a married Lesbian and I have a less likely chance of contracting HIV then a straight male. Your blaming AIDS on the gays? It started in Africa, you gonna blame it on the blacks too? IDK the people whining about the cover saying they are just expressing their rights and are not biggots would not sound so much like biggots if they made a point that they just didnt like it instead of acting like a bunch of tards. As for Gays getting special rights well it should not be so. One guy pointed out bad seeds will pull cards regardless. The race card, the girl card the reverse race card and the gay card. Dont let that posion you on all. For all the Christian issues, church and state are seperate. An atheist isnt thrown out for serving his country. And if w/DADT you already knew they were gay then why the need for new shower stalls etc? To me I don’t think us gays you to be all sensitive to us, dont want to flaunt anything. Gays in the militarty just dont want to be in fear of being kicked out just for being gay and want to be able to share their love for the military with their partner and not have to be ashamed or to be forced to exclude them or hide them from events. As for joking around I have know problem with calling something gay or joking about any body as long as it is good humor and not out of hatred. A good joke is a good joke, political correctness is overated, its the hatred that is wrong.
You can simmer down it is still the Marine Corps. Just like a spouse or date wearing inappropriate evening wear would be asked to leave a MC Ball, a man in a dress would be asked also. Politely and having nothing to do with prejudice. Men’s formal evening wear is clearley defined. I think we need to calm the hell down a bit. This is not the Navy or any other branch of service that puts up with BS publicity stunts. Just because they hump at night has nothing to do with the clearley defined ettiquate followed in the Corps. That will not change.
Your missing the point, you want equal rights for what you believe, but you don’t want the added attention that comes with being Gay or Lesbian. It was always your choice and I don’t judge anyone for their choices. I just don’t like the added knowledge that now something that was best kept a secret is forced on us to accept. What makes you so special that people that don’t condon this conduct should bend over backwards (no pun intended) to accommodate your way of life. Just for the record, I don’t believe for one minute that you will out Marine anyone. Someone eluded too the Marine Times putting this on the front page, the reason is obvious to get people talking about it. Toe is right, this is about votes, and personally I don’t give a shit whether your gay, as long as it doesn’t cost me more. But from all indications, your way of life is costing more for those that don’t participate.
@ Maverick – see here is where you start off wrong. Marines don’t have Sarges that the Army. We are Sergeants, Staff Sergeants, Master Sergeants, etc. The BS training is nothing more than a political tool as Big Toe noted for paying back votes. Not my problem that gays and lesbians have had to serve in silence. My problem is how this is being force feed to us, b/c society is crying wolf. DADT was working fine and then some tic turd had to fix what wasn’t broken.
Serve honorable and speed your liberty doing what you want within the guidelines of the UCMJ.
And here is food for thought – use the “N” word as an example. Notice how blacks use it to befriend another black? Let another race do that, and you get a racist. Case in point, now you will have similar call signs to gays and lesbians, but a straight person better not say it.
Again, this is not a two way street, with all parties trying to come to a collective agreement and understanding on everything that is of a concern. It is a one way liberal street will political finger prints all over it.
Msgt – if you scratch your ass to the point of bleeding i think you should be more concerned with impulse control than contracting aids. Also, how often do you share your razor and toothbrush with other people? That is quite gross and if your motive behind a “gay tax” is to have enough capital for everyone to afford their own toothbrushes then i suggest making personal financial management a required MCI to avoid unnecessary taxing.
“Although it is recommended that you use blood and body fluid precautions whenever you know you may come into contact with nasal secretions, breast milk, stool, sputum, sweat, tears, urine, or vomit, the precautions are not absolutely necessary unless these fluids contain visible traces of blood. Blood and body fluid precautions apply to saliva only when it contains blood or in a dental or oral surgery setting where contamination with blood is likely.
The best practice is to always use blood and body fluid precautions, even when there are no visible traces of blood and no chance of contamination with blood.” -webmd
if kissing had any sort of significant rate of hiv/aids transmission there would have been an epidemic to the point of mass quarantines long ago.
I beg to differ ,,, MsterSmith the door is open for homosexuals to serve openly , all fine and good . Now whats going to happen when transgender or cross dressers want to be open … We all know it’s just around the corner , they deserve their right to serve openly , and not being a hater or bigot about it , I’m a realist .
@ MSgt Retired – bend over backward – no pun intended. Your killing me! LMFAO dude!
I just dont think so BigToe. Can you hold hands while in uniform (silly in cammies I know)? No you cant. Do you know why? Ettiquate. While out dated it is some thing that the Marine Corps still prides itself on and for good reason. It helps return more productive citizens to the scociety regardless of were that scocety is on the political spectrum. Men wear mens clothes, women wear womens clothes. We are not that far left of the blast marker and I doubt we will. Now if it is a dudein a dress that is hot is it still a dude? Only those who have been to Asia can answer that one lol.
If someone is willing to join the Marine Corps and risk life and limb its fine with me if they are gay.
If its a problem for you then grow up and stop being so ignorant. In 20 years people will look back and wonder why this was even an issue. Maybe less.
“Hold up Mav … Why you got to be so ” Agressive ” this isn’t a Moveon.org rally . And if you think this doesn’t affect EVERYONE involved then your dumber than your sudden outburst . It does affect everyone in some way or another and I don’t mean that Marines will be dressing up in pink spandex , very classy there Sis.”
^ If standing up when I hear people spread stupid discriminatory crap about gays and lesbians is considered “aggressive”, then yeah, I guess I’m just one militant b*tch. Or maybe I just don’t think I should be treated like a second class citizen when I pay taxes just like everybody else. Either/or.
“I’m no longer active but I do have a son that is active and YES I have some legit questions.”
^ Such as? I understand the barracks concern, but I just don’t think anyone should get to bring lovers into the barracks, period. That’s what weekend passes are for.
“Your missing the point, you want equal rights for what you believe, but you don’t want the added attention that comes with being Gay or Lesbian.”
^ It’s not a belief, it’s not a choice, it’s a sexual orientation present in roughly 10% of the population (probably higher in the military, to be honest).
Do some research. Your opinion that it is a choice is a “belief” (and a false one).
“I just don’t like the added knowledge that now something that was best kept a secret is forced on us to accept.”
^ Why is it best kept a secret? How come straight people can be as open as they like about their personal lives, but I have to lie about mine? That doesn’t make any sense. Being gay is not “best kept a secret” because there’s nothing shameful about it.
“What makes you so special that people that don’t condon this conduct should bend over backwards (no pun intended) to accommodate your way of life.”
What makes us so special that people condemn us, harass us, beat us, and murder us for it?
There’s your answer.
It’s not about “special rights”, it’s about preventing “special wrongs”.
I hope your right MsterSmith , I really do , but I’m not going to hold my breath . We’ll meet up in about 10 years and re-live this conversation and see what it brings . I for one believe it will be , because they will use the same argument that every other special interest group has used and win due to weak leadership and our inability to say ” HELL to the NO !!! ” .
yes , I’ve been to Asia and know what you mean ..hahaha
Again you ridicule my remarks in an effort to evoke contemptuous laughter from all the readers of this article, how childish. If you have gleened nothing else from my comments, I shouldn’t have to pay extra because you want to be different. As long as I didn’t know it, I was happy to contribute. But now that I know that it contributes to my high medical premiums, I don’t want to play. I shouldn’t have to accept something that I don’t believe in or condon. My issue is that your way of life shouldn’t cost me, and it does.
Ok, everybody hang-fire. I got a meeting with the Grand Wizard. Ah damn, my robe and cone head helmet are in the cleaners! Just kidding. Carry on.
“I shouldn’t have to accept something that I don’t believe in or condon.”
^ You don’t. If you don’t agree that all men deserve equality under constitutional law, you’re fully within your rights to not serve. And frankly, I’d be happier if people who thought like you didn’t.
“But now that I know that it contributes to my high medical premiums, I don’t want to play.”
^ Actually, lesbians have the lowest incidence of HIV contraction out of every possible sexual combination, gay OR straight.
“Not my problem that gays and lesbians have had to serve in silence. My problem is how this is being force feed to us, b/c society is crying wolf.”
^ Er, I don’t think you understand what “crying wolf” means….
If its a problem for you then grow up and stop being so ignorant. In 20 years people will look back and wonder why this was even an issue. Maybe less.
Exactly my point on insulting rather than answering questions or even attempting to discuss the issues like an adult .
@ Maverick , do you honestly think that now this is in the open that people are not going to bring their partners in the barracks . What if both are active duty , whats to stop them .
Is a hetero couple thats active going to have that same benefit . Equality is a two way street and if they are not afforded the same opportunity then it’s just as wrong .
Are gays going through training also ,yes I think thats a legit question . Think about it , heteros are going to have to make adjustments to the way they have lived their entire lives no matter how old they are in age . Lifestye , fear , phobia , or whatever it’s a legit issue for the people that posses it
A while back you called me uninformed, you continually breakdown my comments and others to be more assertive in your replies, yet you don’t acknowledge we have a valid point. For the record, I have been retired long time, and this only effects me in the pocketbook. You haven’t acknowledged that or grasped it yet. I don’t make issue with the fact that you are gay, I make issue that you are reaching into my wallet without permission. Special Rights and Special Wrongs, Hogwash! I’ve been around along time, never assaulted a homosexual, not one time have I insulted anyone in my comments here or anywhere else. I had a position of authority in the Marine Corps, and regardless whether I knew about their orientation I treated Marines fairly. You told me to research, well why don’t you take some of your advice. Here is an interesting article you should enjoy.
“Maverick , do you honestly think that now this is in the open that people are not going to bring their partners in the barracks . What if both are active duty , whats to stop them.”
^ Um….military professionalism?
“Are gays going through training also ,yes I think thats a legit question.”
Everyone is going through DADT repeal training. Regardless of your sexual orientation. So I don’t even know why this is a beef.
“A while back you called me uninformed, you continually breakdown my comments and others to be more assertive in your replies, yet you don’t acknowledge we have a valid point.”
And that valid point is????????
“For the record, I have been retired long time, and this only effects me in the pocketbook. You haven’t acknowledged that or grasped it yet.”
I’m fully aware you’re retired. I would have guessed it if you hadn’t stated it outright. And how exactly is this going to affect your pocketbook, sir? Can you give me a breakdown of the expense reports?
Didn’t think so.
“I’ve been around along time, never assaulted a homosexual, not one time have I insulted anyone in my comments here or anywhere else.”
“Your opinion of homosexuals is insulting and misinformed.
I had a position of authority in the Marine Corps, and regardless whether I knew about their orientation I treated Marines fairly.”
^ Good. I expect no less from a Marine, which is why I think the DADT repeal is a bunch of caterwauling over nothing. Gays and lesbians are already in the military and lots of them are already out – the troops know this is a non-issue. Canada has had openly gay troops since 1993 and it has not affected their readiness in the slightest.
I don’t understand the point of your article about chimps. What does that have to do with DADT repeal?
Here is an interesting video you should enjoy:
if you believe that article MSGT retired then how can you blame the AIDS epidemic on the Gays on not the government you fought so hard to defend?
Progressive liberal bullshit, I’m not the one that said Aids came from Africa, one of you said it. I’m not blaming the Aids epidemic on the gays, you are more victimized by it because studies have shown that Gays spread the virus in greater numbers, and I posted that research which you have seem to dismiss. Stop twisting things to make yourself seem more intellectual then others. Your Gay so what, who gives a shit, get out of my wallet.
Out of the eight years I served I’ve seen a few do things not permitted . from smoking pot , sneaking girls into the barracks , to drinking on duty , and yes the dreaded going UA . So no the ” Professionalism answer isn’t going to fly .
If both Marines are active duty and the same sex , what is going to stop them . I’m not talking about spending the night or getting a quickie , I’m talking about just dropping by for a visit etc etc .. If the rule is still around that we had , the opposite sex is not permitted in the barracks .
you can’t tel Maverick in one breath she is not responding to your questions and in another fault her for trying to answer them.
I have a question for those against gays being able to just state they are gay in the military…how is it special treatment to simply not have to deny they are gay? Noone is asking to have sex in the barracks, noone is asking for special promotions. they simply dont want to have to be discharged just for being gay and not have to hide the fact that they have a same sex partner. If a straight man was told he could not let people know he had a wife but instead had to hide it would that be fair?
The military is not all of a sudden gonna be the set of Queer as folks or the L word. That is a stereotype. The straight community has just as many “girly men” and “tom boyish”girls as the gay community has “Feminine women” and “jock homos”. Rules of conduct are rules of conduct and should be uphold for all.
As for the training, personally I think its crock, you have said over and over that you already know of the gays and have worked by them for year now, so now they can say, ya your right I am gay. No training sensitive crap needed. Its the straight political staff demanding the training not the gays. As for jokes and blacks calling each other nigga and homos calling each other fags but its wrong for an “outsider”. well I think that is BS too. Anyone with half a brain can tell the context of someone using a phrase to tear someone down or out of playful jokn around and I think all people should lighten up on that issue, that’s just Gay and not the good kind.
“Stop twisting things to make yourself seem more intellectual then others. Your Gay so what, who gives a shit, get out of my wallet.”
Fixed that for you. And I don’t have to twist your words to make you look uninformed sir, you do a bang-up job of it yourself.
Msgt – so your medical payments are altered by the statistic implication that homosexuals are prone to hiv/aids. then should we ban all races that are more genetically prone to diseases? should we ban all people with any sort of medical history in their families? your concern with your wallet is quite annoying. if its that big of an issue cut some of your frivolous spending and study state and federal taxes on how to retain as much of your money as possible.
This IS NOT going to go the way the writers at MarineCorpsTimes want it to go. It’s going to go quite the other way, for the very simple and irrefutable reason that this will prove to have the disciplinary impact of having men and women share showers, head facilities, and bunks. Further, it’s going to create such chaos, in the form of lawsuits, discharges, and insubordination, that the Marine Corps will be unrecognizable to anyone. This last result is the liberal’s dream. The liberal has HATED the Marine Corps because we have resisted the hardest at attempts to shoehorn us into modernity. Well, on Sept. 20th, the liberal will have breached the FINAL firewall of the Marine Corps, and I PLEDGE TO ALL OF YOU, this will have been a bridge too far!
Researchers believe that sometime in the 1930s a form of simian immunodeficiency virus jumped to humans in central Africa. The mutated virus becomes HIV-1. As with all theories its a theoriy but yes I was being sarcastic because you were blaming AIDS on gays, yes you were and I simply wanted to know if you were going to blame it on the blacks too.
Wow. I’ve actually LOL’d IRL more on this thread than any other. Ever.
Someone remind me what stance I’m taking on this issue again?
What WAS the issue again? Oh yeah – the GIANT WE’RE GAY cover.
I’d like to know (just out of morbid curiosity) what the closet gay who wants to stay in the closet has to say about all this business. Or the gay who’s not really gay but acts gay to get the chicks. What does he think?
Nobody will ever be able to completely appease everyone at the same time on one issue. Someone will always be butt-hurt about something that pleases someone else (get the pun there? It’s a butt-secks joke).
I will say this, as it was pointed out in someone’s post that I’m completely comfortable in my own heterosexuality, the only thing that this changes (other than the obvious adjustments to BAH, TriCare, and some SNCO’s “ability to lead”) is now you just may not be able to say “That’s gay” or “You’re gay” or “That’s as queer as Gonzalez” or my personal favorite “A warm mouth is a warm mouth”, which I KNOW every Marine has said or laughed at at least once. Including you who are laughing right now.
Look at it like this, the leaders say “Hey ladies and gents, you can’t say faggot, or homo, or queer, or pillow biter, or fudge packer, or carpet muncher, etc.” Just like they say “Hey gents, you can’t say racially charged words like the “N” word”, which was brought up earlier.
Guess what? Marines are a close group of turds who accept each other no matter their flaws, gender, race, or religion. This means that LCpl Schmuckatelli says to LCpl Binotz-Diaz “Something something something wet-back joke.” and LCpl Binotz-Diaz, who may have been offended comes back with “Rather be a wet-back than a fudge-packer”. Then they laugh it off after a quick bickering and move along.
Nothing is more homo-erotic than the all Marine favorites, like “Fruit Basket”, or “Credit Card Swipes”, or “Good Games”, or “Oil Checks”, or “Goats, Bat-Wings, Brains” or drawing giant wieners on bathroom walls (circa Iraq/Afghanistan port-a-shitters). Some of these things are what some straight Marines do for a good laugh (and I’m not implicating myself by any stretch of the imagination) but are going to have to be rethought.
That is what inevitably happens. Leadership sets the “no-no” rules, and Marines being Marines push the envelope. The gays will get thick skin (if they don’t have thick skin already) and they’ll punch back. For example, see posts 48-52.
“If both Marines are active duty and the same sex , what is going to stop them . I’m not talking about spending the night or getting a quickie , I’m talking about just dropping by for a visit etc etc .. If the rule is still around that we had , the opposite sex is not permitted in the barracks.”
^ So if they’re just dropping by for a visit (no sex involved) then what’s the issue? “No women in men’s barracks” is a rule that has nothing to do with a person’s sexuality, it’s about having mixed genders in shared quarters.
“Out of the eight years I served I’ve seen a few do things not permitted . from smoking pot , sneaking girls into the barracks , to drinking on duty , and yes the dreaded going UA . So no the ” Professionalism answer isn’t going to fly.”
^ If gays act unprofessionally, they should be as accountable for their behavior as any of the bad boys you mentioned. Easy peasy. But hanging out with your lover of the same sex is not dishonorable conduct, or anywhere on par with breaking regulations regarding drug use, barracks rules, drinking on duty, etc…
“Its the straight political staff demanding the training not the gays.”
“As for jokes and blacks calling each other nigga and homos calling each other fags but its wrong for an “outsider”. well I think that is BS too. Anyone with half a brain can tell the context of someone using a phrase to tear someone down or out of playful jokn around and I think all people should lighten up on that issue, that’s just Gay and not the good kind.”
^ I don’t know any gay man or lesbian that isn’t up to the kind of good-natured teasing that heterosexual soldiers submit each other to regarding who they sleep with, as long as the responses are not of a “YOU ARE GOING TO BURN IN THE FIERY LAKE OF DOOM” variety.
“I’d like to know (just out of morbid curiosity) what the closet gay who wants to stay in the closet has to say about all this business. Or the gay who’s not really gay but acts gay to get the chicks. What does he think?”
^ This is what kills me. People assume that just because of DADT repeal, the gays and lesbians are going to go cartwheeling through the streets going “Free at last! Free at last!”
Erm, no. I’m proud to be a lesbian, but frankly my love life is not really anybody’s business. Most gays and lesbians feel that way, especially since we catch so much stigma and shit about it.
We’re a discreet people. So even though the option to be openly gay is going to be there, a lot of people probably still won’t come out, just because they don’t feel like their love lives are anyone’s business.
“I am a ginger who has been discriminated and verbally abused for way too long. I demand rights. Just kidding, I am a ginger but I laugh it off, throw an insult back where it came from, and go back to work. My choices are dye my hair or live with it. What I don’t do is cry about it like a fag.”
I’m curious. I am not as familiar with the discrimination that you laugh off so I hope you can clarify it for me.
Was it illegal to be ginger in every state of the union until 1962? Was it still illegal in 12 states until 2003 when the Supreme Court said that the Constitution actually applies to all citizens – even the ginger ones?
Is it illegal for gingers to marry in 45 states? Have any states passed laws using language deliberately and intentionally designed to make it clear that they not only didn’t welcome ginger people in their state or see them as equal, but that they hate ginger people simply because they happen to be ginger? Cuz that would be a pretty crappy thing to do, man.
Has any Congressman ever proposed that gingers be exiled to an island to die? On the floor of the US House of Representatives?
Have any people currently running for President of the United States say, “It’s a very sad life. It’s part of Satan, I think, to say this is ginger”?
Or maybe they decided to have a vote on whether gingers can have the same rights as “normal” people. Sure, that could happen.
Or maybe there are school boards who refuse to let ginger kids get together to provide support for each other? Do principles say that they don’t want immoral gingers influencing the other kids?
Or maybe last year one student walked into his computer class and put two bullets in the back of another student, because he was ginger. Or maybe there were people murdered for being ginger this past year?
And what about the personal, anymouse? Have you ever had any potential employer smile that tight smile and say, “sorry, we just don’t have any openings right now” when you knew they were lying? Or any well intentioned person ask, “Now when are you going to settle down and find a nice hair color?”
And what about when they tell you that they don’t mind people who are ginger… “if they don’t shove it down my throat.” By which they mean if you do anything, anywhere, at any time that gives a hint that you might be ginger. And should you ever suggest that you think gingers should be entitled to have the same laws as everyone else… well, then you are militant activist raging ginger that hates God, the family, and America.
And I’m sure that it must gall you that gingers are required to pay higher taxes. Literally. As crazy as it sounds, gingers are taxed on employmenf benefits that other employees are not taxed on – because they are ginger. (bet you didn’t know that, did you?)
And I bet, anymouse, that they tell you that it’s no big deal, just man up.
But you know what I would find intollerable if I were you, anymouse? It would be if some flippant jerk pretended that he too faced discrimination and just laughed off the fact that as of today you, a ginger, are still not legally entitled to hold the job you hold, do the work you do, and have to lie about it if anyone suspects that under that bad dye-job you’re ginger.
Because you know something, anymouse, anyone who would do that to you would be a pretty worthless piece of mouse-poop.
More insults, is that the gay mantra now. It’s hilarious reading how you justify your existence. This is how you’re gonna win approval, by brow beating people with inane rheotric of how badly you have been treated in the equality category. Good luck in all your endeavors.
More take it or make adjustments to take it … The beauty of that is eventually everyone else’s money is going to run out .
My issue isn’t money , I know we’re screwed fiscally anyway you cut it . I also could care less if your gay , lesbian , love chickens or love to rub your groin on dryer sheets , it means nothing to me . I work with gays both flaming and others quiet and respectful as long as you do your job and have the next ones back it’s all that matters .
My issue is simply this , I don’t support or agree with the lifestyle on many grounds . On the same note I don’t fear you , not intimidated by thinking you can out work me . I consider myself well educated and non bigoted , I also attempt to show respect and expect the same in return .
I believe we would all get more accomplished if headlines like is on this magazine , among certain attitudes were sat aside , and also if people tried not to confuse ” Tolerance ” with
” acceptance “.
I for one can tolerate it and work with it , but I will never accept it ,
If both Marines are active duty and the same sex , what is going to stop them . I’m not talking about spending the night or getting a quickie , I’m talking about just dropping by for a visit etc etc .. If the rule is still around that we had , the opposite sex is not permitted in the barracks.”
Wrong , a hypothetical here …
We are both females ( you did say you were ) and we are partners and I just happen top stroll into your barracks to hang while I wait for you to get ready for chow . We’re not having sex , yet we’re GF/GF … and we’re together in your barracks .
A straight active duty couple cannot do that , and if homosexuals can do that and hetero couples can’t , it’s wrong .As frivolous as this seems to many , it’s an issue and Uncle Sugar has left YET ANOTHER DOOR OPEN for another issue to step through . My question is when is enough , enough .
well said unimpressed.
During my first deployment we had a guy that admitted he was a bisexual. no one really cared except when he would try to join in on the grab ass equipped with a creepy smile. at that point we would abandon whatever stupid game we were playing and walk away. kind of disturbing but nothing worse than having an unwanted sexual advance from a fat/ugly female. it didnt stop anything it just made some things a little awkward.
“We are both females ( you did say you were ) and we are partners and I just happen top stroll into your barracks to hang while I wait for you to get ready for chow . We’re not having sex , yet we’re GF/GF … and we’re together in your barracks.
A straight active duty couple cannot do that , and if homosexuals can do that and hetero couples can’t , it’s wrong .As frivolous as this seems to many , it’s an issue and Uncle Sugar has left YET ANOTHER DOOR OPEN for another issue to step through . My question is when is enough, enough.”
^ I’d totally be in support of mixed-gender barrack law if there wasn’t so much heterosexual rape in the military.
“More insults, is that the gay mantra now. It’s hilarious reading how you justify your existence. This is how you’re gonna win approval, by brow beating people with inane rheotric of how badly you have been treated in the equality category. Good luck in all your endeavors.”
^ You still haven’t made your valid point Sergeant! Don’t go away angry now! I haven’t kow-towed to your heterosexual lifestyle yet!
@ Mav That’s my point… if no-one is going cartwheeling, why the fuss by MCTimes to begin with and why the 130 post discussion trying to explain one stance or the other? I stand by my “It’s no big deal, who cares” post.
“I’m proud to be a lesbian, but frankly my love life is not really anybody’s business. Most gays and lesbians feel that way, especially since we catch so much stigma and shit about it.”
^ Just like Cpl Douchebaggery who swears up and down he got laid by like 10 chicks this past weekend… WHO EFFING CARES? Not saying that you did whatever lesbians do with 10 chicks in a weekend and then bragged about it to the Marines around you… still, if you did – WHO EFFING CARES?
The whole thing is blown way out of proportion. The MCTimes front page does, in fact at first glance, insinuate (without looking at the subtext) that Marines – in whole – are gay.
Grunts and Non-03’s alike will all, yet again, have to eat their “Shit Sandwich” and big rubber green weenies for everyone. Love the Corps or get the hell out. Flamboyancy is also called eccentrics which is prejudicial to good order and discipline and applies to ALL Marines, gay or straight.
Good leaders will figure out a way through the awkwardness and ill-comfort. Great leaders will stay with our beloved Corps rather than reject it because of a policy set in place by the CiC and lead it to the next era of complainers and short-timers.
exactly how was that insulting by pointing out some facts that you call rhetoric? That just ignorance
I’d totally be in support of mixed-gender barrack law if there wasn’t so much heterosexual rape in the military.
Doesn’t matter , every hetero isn’t guilty of rape the same as every gay individual isn’t guilty of bed hopping ..
@ Yup , if you unimpressed is directed at me I really couldn’t care less . I wasn’t trying to impress anyone , just being honest .
Was the Bisexual male or female , got lost in the translation . I haven’t seen or read any law or anywhere in the Bill of Rights that says anyone has to grab ass with someone they didn’t want to .
“I for one can tolerate it and work with it , but I will never accept it,”
^ I respect your position, and I know that I personally at least am not asking anyone to “accept” homosexuality. You’re entitled to your beliefs as long as you leave me to serve in peace.
You don’t have to like gays and lesbians. You just have to leave them alone if you disagree with the way that they live. That’s it. No sermons, no gay bashing, nada. Just cold shoulder them and move along. They’ll find tons of supporters who will accept them, the disapproval of a few will not deter them from serving. We’ve been disapproved of and badmouthed our whole lives, it’s not like we aren’t callused to discrimination or anything.
Why do you have to tolerate gays and lesbians?
‘Cause it’s a free country. And even if you believe that homosexuality is a choice (as a homosexual, I don’t, since I certainly wouldn’t choose to be ostracized for life over loving people of the same gender as myself, and have been gay as far back as I can remember) then a person still has the right to choose for him or herself in the United States.
“Doesn’t matter , every hetero isn’t guilty of rape the same as every gay individual isn’t guilty of bed hopping ..”
Maybe not, but the statistics speak for themselves.
“That’s my point… if no-one is going cartwheeling, why the fuss by MCTimes to begin with and why the 130 post discussion trying to explain one stance or the other? I stand by my “It’s no big deal, who cares” post.”
^ Because it’s a matter of civil rights and basic human decency. We deserve respect and acknowledgement for our continued (and unflagging) role in the defense of this country, and I can’t say that I don’t find the magazine cover a little tasteless, but I *can* say that it is as big of a deal to us as the Civil Rights Movement was to blacks, or women’s suffrage was for women.
@bigtoe – there is a poster called “unimpressed.” i said well said to this person. seems you are getting too heated to read completely =p
“Just like Cpl Douchebaggery who swears up and down he got laid by like 10 chicks this past weekend… WHO EFFING CARES? Not saying that you did whatever lesbians do with 10 chicks in a weekend and then bragged about it to the Marines around you… still, if you did – WHO EFFING CARES?”
Voyeuristic straight men? *grin*
@ Maverick , there we can reach common ground ..
I will revert back to my original post by saying this is nothing more than a political move by a president thats scared shitless and needs votes . Now whats going to happen if the next pres repeals it …
“Voyeuristic straight men? *grin*”
Touche. Funny you say voyeuristic and opens a completely different can of worms… ask any Marine, or man for that matter, if they think lesbians are hot. Maybe these guys are more tolerable of the gays than they care to admit.
unimpressed, I think it would be sad that you cant joke about it just because its not politically correct.
as for the other person comment about the grab ass, how was it not any more bisexual for the “straight” guys to play i before the bisexual guy jumped in. Straight guys do some of the gayest things around, I don’t get it. I have three brothers, one an ex marine. All of them straight. They have plenty of gay friends (partly because of me) but the stupid gay stuff they do as men doesnt stop because of who is playing. They trust in their friendship that its all in fun and are secure in themselves.
as far as unwanted advances from fat ugly chick my wife and I dont get bent out of shape everytime some guy makes a pass at one of us, buy me a drink IDC and yes I know your a lesbian trapped in a mans body
bigtoe – “Was the Bisexual male or female , got lost in the translation . I haven’t seen or read any law or anywhere in the Bill of Rights that says anyone has to grab ass with someone they didn’t want to .”
^it actually says guy in the post meaning male. also i think you misunderstand my point. its not life was ruined because we were forced to endure this horrible hardship or w/e (sarcasm there if you couldnt tell). no one really cared to the point segregation or setting ground rules. life was actually pretty unchanged because even before we found out he was bisexual we all just though he was sort of creepy anyway. unrelated i know but im not sure im as opposed to your thoughts as you believe.
I personally don’t want to see two women kissing anymore than I want to see a guy and a girl swapping spit in the canned beans section at Wal mart … There’s a place for that and it ain’t there … Get a frigging room and keep it private .
In your story you said guy at the beginning , at the end you said fat ugly female . Thats why I asked .
As far as the unimpressed comment , I was asking because I was unaware of the other individual . I don’t get heated ever since the VA adjusted my meds . I’m a happy camper now .
Will gay men be issued vaseline, PVS piping and a gerbil now in the corps?
HAHAHAHAHAHA !!! Not stoolpushr ….. LMAO !!!!!
“Will gay men be issued vaseline, PVS piping and a gerbil now in the corps?”
^Are you asking because you hope so for personal reasons? All Marines know that the Marine Corps doesn’t just start issuing new gear to make it easier on them. The old gear still works. You’ve never heard of a light coat of CLP?
Holy hell! Gerbils, chickens, dryer sheets – this is fn awesome!
So, I’m guessing that Gay as a football bat or wrong as two boys fkn, or my favorite – hotter than two fgts in a foot locker are no longer proper statements? Just asking. You know how us old breed MSgts are. LMFAO!
Well i’m going to demand it because newer is better. I bet the gay men in the army will get the family sized vaseline bottle. Seriously though, don’t expect crude jokes like mine to stop. Not that I give two rats ass about someone’s sexuality but i make fun of everyone equally. Doodoo chasers, bushwackers, the awful driving asians, and the middle easterners who spontaneously combust will always have a zinger by yours truly.
Oh, hell yeah I’m ok with it, I just don’t want to have to pay someone else’s way. But seriously – are the lesbians HOT!? I’m just asking.
@wth – “as far as unwanted advances from fat ugly chick my wife and I dont get bent out of shape everytime some guy makes a pass at one of us, buy me a drink IDC and yes I know your a lesbian trapped in a mans body”
so is that to say that you would be fine if someone started playing with your wives tits/pussy in front of you or she would be okay if someone grabbed your dick? i think you underestimate the potentially homosexual acts that happen in the infantry. a creepy grin can change everything around. i dont particularly appreciate you being a douche but i suppose thats what happens on the internet eh?
Gay as a football bat isn’t wrong, however brown streaks on the front of your underwear is pretty gay.
No real lesbians are not hot, that is just a fantasy. You know what they look like? Larry the cable guy except they’re not going bald.
wow… MCTimes moderators hit the panic button and this entire thread self destructs in:
this is what’s wrong with America, asshurt (no pun intended) by silly jokes. Don’t tell me this isn’t funnier than two blind lesbians in a fish market.
@ stoolpushr – this is some funny shit! “and the middle easterners who spontaneously combust will always have a zinger by yours truly.” Oh, doodoo pusher was good too!
@ unimpressed – good, if it blows, maybe it’ll take the democrats with it!
@ stoolpushr – you mean the lesbians on pornos are not real? “F!” That’s false advertisement. GD Larry Flint. hahaha. Larry the Cable Guy – nice!
toleration is fine you don’t have to except anything at least for me, but how can something be tolerated if it is kept hush hush
I will say this, I’m impressed with the homosexual education that has been force fed to me the past few months. I was previously ignorant to the fact there’s a masculine feminine person in the relationship. Imagine all this time when i thought gay men flipped a coin and maybe called tails for tails, hahahahahaha
@ stoolpushr – “force fed” nice! I sure hope some clown shoe is on duty with the MCTimes right now reading these response.
@ stoolpushr – “this is what’s wrong with America, asshurt (no pun intended) by silly jokes. Don’t tell me this isn’t funnier than two blind lesbians in a fish market.”
I think I just caughed up a kidney laughing! I thought I had some good one liners, but you are the king!
Those were a poor choice of words on the MCtimes and to some it was just as offensive as the jokes I’m posting. However I’m standing by my freedom to act like an ass.
Oh dude I have tons, I’m actually a standup comedian part time. I have a ton of jokes and no minority group or majority group is spared.
Ok so DADT got repealed and you can be openly gay come Sept. 20…. Just remember UCMJ still bans Sodomy (Art. 125) http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm125.htm Yes be openly gay, but don’t have sex with your “partner.” You can be punished for sodomy, but then again every straight service member could be punished for it too.
Freedom to act like an ass! Fuck it – 1st Amendment, that’s what we are talking about, getn this out in the open and hashing it out! If jokes come into play and they are laughed at – no one can get made, unless they are specifically targeting at an individual out of hate.
I am an equal opportunity joker, if your asshurt I’m hear, have no fear, i will make fun of your vaseline coated rear.
I don’t know what’s funnier the fact that these higher ups are going to talk about lifting sodomy or the fact that someone took the time to make this part of the UCMJ because it was clearly a problem in the past.
Hey wondering – the bed room is off limits on this topic. What goes on in there, stays in there. Like Vegas. Bottom line, there will not be morning formations with lines marked saying straight guys who got a BJ here, those who gave a BJ here, those who got their pipes cleaned here, or those who did the cleaning – there. This is all off limits, unless it is a sex crime, absent same on same sex or male on female.
@wondering – not true. they gave us a brief on faqs regarding the rules and that actually came up as a smart ass comment and it was in the faq sheet read to us by our sgt maj. sodomy is now allowed so go assfuck all you want!
@ stoolpushr – ok dude, you have to be a grunt! I know it is sterotypical, but damn that last one was the best!
The cover of this week’s Marine Corps Times is an utter disgrace to Straight Marines. Not putting a face on the cover, but rather just the uniform that I don and what we as Marines wear prominently with the words “Get over it, We’re Gay”. To me, and I’m sure many others, this looks like it is trying to say that the Marine Corps in general is GAY. I’m sorry, but the Marine Corps is Hardcore and it is unfair to say that the Marine Corps is Gay!
LoL 03 i am.
All there has to be is proof it happened. And pictures tend to always end up floating around on the internet.
@SergeantUSMC until there is a change made to the UCMJ, it is still off limits.
Will there be a new gay comic for the military? Similar to Terminal Lance? Maybe call it,….Condoms stuck in my butt…..RumpRangers deep inserts? No?….How about Lawnmowing for wookie monsters?
@ stoolpushr – been around them for 20 yrs before I retired. You fkrs come up with some off the wall shit. Flaming burritos off the 3rd decks, bat wings, the brain (which I use) etc. If these responses cannot be broken down and looked at in the manner that we are accepting this, just need to polish (no pun) some rough edges and itll be all good. If not, stand by for the gerbil in ur ass jokes and dryer sheets on your bean bag!
um i dont have a dick unless you count the one put away in a drawer, that was far more of a douche statement. and in the scenario they were all on deployment together not strangers and I simply don’t get how a bunch of straight men playing grab ass is any less gay then one bi-sexual guy thrown in the mix, for all you know a closeted homo could have been grabbin ass with one of the guys already. trust me they dont all set off gaydar. I was simply pointing out I have seen plenty of straight guys do those stupid gay ass grabbin stuff and they didnt get all bent out of shape because one of the friends happened to be gay cuz they trusted each other and their own sexuality. Creepy looks can be misread but eh maybe not and if the look was valid that he was getting his rocks off well I suppose I can see why they didnt let him play with all the other boys.
Maybe I missed the point I thought they were all buddies and had a comradery thing goin between them. As for someone grabbin my wife, well if we were in a setting like described where everyone was doin that back and forth I guess we would all be doing it however girls dont really do that jackass episode stuff. Although occasionally friends do feel her up because she does have nice boobs. Come to think of it it is mostly gay guys lmao.
@ Wondering and SergeantUSMC – the sodomy thing is not going to come up unless it is a sex crime. As I said earlier the bed room is off limits. The UCMJ and leaders are not going there. Trust me, I am a Paralegal. As with ROE, LOAC and all other classes we received and taught, this was one part of DADT that was particularly a concern – but again, it only comes up if it is a sex crime.
Since 1985 federal rules say that a man who had sex with another man even once since 1977 is banned permanently from donating blood. Has this rule been changed?
BigToe took me a bit to get back to you. Real work and all. I hope so I really do. This Marine is one leader who will continue to tow the line and allow our brothers/sister to serve openly. As long as it does not make a mockery of our warrior ethos I could care less. Attempt to pull a political stunt I will break my foot off in some ones @$$. I would rather be punished for the right thing than allowing the standard to slip because of special interest.
So who are these sodomy enforces that likely performs countless hours of breaching to catch backdoor breaching in the act with their high powered lens cameras. Ok seriously i had enough fun for the night.
All Marines should behave in a professional manner, don’t take things to heart. Its still a brotherhood.
This is for MSgt, USMC retired……………..”its good that you are retired, because you and your bigoted, sick, snotty points of views are dying…….. I don’t know who you think you are impressing with the sheer amount of illogical sick rhetoric you have tossed onto this comment portion, but if you think you and your attitude has any place leading men in any way, shape or form, you are sadly mistaken. Get ‘fked’ will you.
Stoolpushr-I found your jokes to be funny and I am going to have to remember a few but you made it clear you are an equal opportunity jokester so I believe you were being lighthearted and not a bigot or anything-sometimes in written form that can be a lil hard to portray but I think i read you correctly
@ Allan now if you can’t play nice, you’ll have to take your green weenie and go home. The old salty Master Sergeant has his views which may not appeal to you but hey, free country. We all fought and bled so you guys and girls can bat for the same softball team.
I’ll say it a million times, you can’t change peoples’ ideology over night, and for some at all. So just as you’ll get tolerance from most to be openly homosexual, you’ll have to learn to tolerate the fact that not everyone will accept your way of life.
In the meantime, we’ll have the open forums to vent all our frustrations. Take the good with the bad. Minorities and women didn’t achieve equality overnight and most still deal with the bullshit.
unimpressed, i’m impressed
@ stoolpushr – look at Allan, wow he has smoke rolling out of all orifices. Look here pin head…, like stoolpushr said don’t take it to heart. If you read all the posts, mine included, you’ll see there is not racial points or bigot points, there are valid points on both sides that still need addressed. Moreover, the last few postings, if you have noticed (probably due to your small pea size brain) is that we starting coming together on this subject and laughing. Hence the ethos. Lastly, there allan, I have lead Marines in garrison and combat, and I have lost marines in combat. So you can go fuck yourself if you think you are any better than anyone else posting anything here. I can bet that I probably was coming out of Iraq on my first tour when you were trying to figure out which end was up. That would be 1991 there shit for brains. Your reply and comments are a reminder as to why I retired, not b/c of gays and lesbians wanting to serve openingly, it was b/c of narrow minded, college brat bitches like you who think you know it all, but have next to no expierence. Do your job, have fun at it, joke with and lead your Marines. Be glad that you are alive and with all of your limbs. Unlike some of my wounded brother and sisters.
“I personally don’t want to see two women kissing anymore than I want to see a guy and a girl swapping spit in the canned beans section at Wal mart … There’s a place for that and it ain’t there … Get a frigging room and keep it private.”
^ I agree, I don’t like excessive PDA, gay OR straight. Hand-holding is one thing, but nobody should be making out in public, it’s trashy.
“Don’t tell me this isn’t funnier than two blind lesbians in a fish market.”
^ Okay, even I laughed at that one.
“As long as it does not make a mockery of our warrior ethos I could care less.”
^ I don’t think you’re going to have to worry about this, the kinds of gays and lesbians who join the military *despite* it’s reputation of being unfriendly to queers are usually the kind of people who have something to prove. And that something is usually the furthest thing from, “We’re here, we’re queer, get used to it.”
Now see what happens when you stick your hand in the bulldogs food bowl Allan? Skimming isn’t your friend in this forum.
“Ok so DADT got repealed and you can be openly gay come Sept. 20…. Just remember UCMJ still bans Sodomy (Art. 125) http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm125.htm Yes be openly gay, but don’t have sex with your “partner.” You can be punished for sodomy, but then again every straight service member could be punished for it too.”
For your information, a third of gay men don’t even HAVE anal sex.
Learn something every day, dontcha?
i know he got all happy when Stoolpushr started the gay jokes and he was able to chime in and laugh a lil and now allan got him riled up again. damn he might start talking about his wallet some more 🙁
It will be interesting to watch the first boy scout troop get kicked off a base because of their policy regarding scoutmasters. Any bets as to which service it will be? I’m thinking the Navy will lead the assault on scouting, probably by the same folks who were so eager to see degeneracy extended to Navy chapels.
@ Unimpressed – GD right! That shit pissed me off. We have been at it for what 5 hours and have all added good points and have laughed. I see only valid concerns, no racial hatred. If someone comes in on the back side of this and skims something, then they miss the point and get the wrong picture and/or the words twisted. Hence the ass chewing (no pun) he just got. We are all brothers and sisters, from different backgrounds and beliefs. Noone is trying to change anyone. We are just asking hard questions that all sides want answered for the greater good of all. Marines, Sailors, Soldiers, Airmen, Coasties, etc are here to take care of each other, this country and more importantly those who cannot defend themselves. If someone takes something that we have been talking about out of context – that on them, and they deserve to get blasted. Splash over and out!
Silly breeders. 🙂
@ wth – that’s the other MSgt. Gotta look at the name. I think his is all together, where mine is spread out. Yeah stoolpushr had me rolling, hell I think all of us. And that’s a good thing – it breaks the ice and we can talk back and forth comfortably.
lol well I thought I saw a difference in the two but ya i got a lil lost there, I almost thought you signed on twice when I got home from work, hey maybe allan was skimmin and got confused too. hey if its funny its funny
MSgt, you need to learn: either you embrace the sodomy and accept it as normal or you’re a bigot. That is the way the template works and that is why it was SO IMPORTANT to get the DODT repeal completed. It will be so slow but eventually you’ll see people who are devout (Mormons, Catholics, Orthodox, Baptist…basically anybody who believes in traditional values) marginalized and forced out of the service. It won’t happen right away, bust rest assured this is the goal.
@ wth – funny is funny! @ JNWarren – I’m catholic and I ain’t going to confession and I am not looking fwd to the walking farts after the buthole doctor shoots air in my vrbt box! I’m good!:)
hey is that how the sodomy police are going to figure it out? by the farts? they will be able to tell the virgins from the non virgins.
There will come a time when Catholic = Bigot, Mormon = Bigot, Baptist = Bigot, etc. If you don’t accept the sodomy, you’ll be a bigot.
It sounds as idiotic as objecting to somebody saying “Merry Christmas” I know, or objecting to the concept of an “Easter Egg” roll, but I’ve seen/heard both in military facilities.
The idiocy will continue and get worse.
By the way, has anybody made the case why accepting personnel who are 50 times (or more) likely to be HIV positive and not know it into the military is a good idea?
“MSgt, you need to learn: either you embrace the sodomy and accept it as normal or you’re a bigot. That is the way the template works and that is why it was SO IMPORTANT to get the DODT repeal completed. It will be so slow but eventually you’ll see people who are devout (Mormons, Catholics, Orthodox, Baptist…basically anybody who believes in traditional values) marginalized and forced out of the service. It won’t happen right away, bust rest assured this is the goal.”
^ OMG, he knows the plan!!!
*runs off to inform for the Gay Mafia*
I wonder if the Times expected the initial outrage to turn into an amusing banter of average Marine-isms. In true-to-form Marine Corps fashion. Suck it, MCTimes.
“By the way, has anybody made the case why accepting personnel who are 50 times (or more) likely to be HIV positive and not know it into the military is a good idea?”
^ As I’ve already stated, us dykes are less likely to contract HIV than gays or heterosexuals.
Can we just have an all-lesbian fighting force please? That way I won’t have to worry about catching theh AIDS!1! in my water fountains from any of you fools.
“^ OMG, he knows the plan!!!
*runs off to inform for the Gay Mafia*”
HAHA! Gay Mafia… who’s your Boss? Vito from Sopranos?!
Awww, Maverick, while you’re at it make sure none of the kids use the word “Easter” in mid-April at the DoD school functions and for God’s sake, never utter Christmas in the presence of the kids.
One things for sure, hostility to Christianity is a touchstone for degenerates. Make sure you teach the kids that their parents are wrong.
As a practicing Catholic, and please don’t take this the wrong way, until they can clean out the -ehem- “Altar Boy Buddies” you and your religion hold no water here. By the way, haven’t we already argued that religion is probably the biggest source which fuels hatred and intolerance?
“Awww, Maverick, while you’re at it make sure none of the kids use the word “Easter” in mid-April at the DoD school functions and for God’s sake, never utter Christmas in the presence of the kids.”
Um, I’m a practicing Christian, in case you skimmed through this entire comments section. I even quoted relevant scripture earlier.
“One things for sure, hostility to Christianity is a touchstone for degenerates. Make sure you teach the kids that their parents are wrong.”
^ I will do what all parents should do, and teach my kids that *bigotry* is wrong.
everyone has aids aids aids aids aids aids aids aids
Except lesbians. We keep our dicks exceptionally clean. And in various sizes and colors for your pleasure.
“^ OMG, he knows the plan!!!
*runs off to inform for the Gay Mafia*”
but dont forget to stop and buy some milk on the way
@ Maverick you’ve got to be the funniest damn lez bean I’ve ever interacted with. Also the first. But don’t let that make you feel there’s nothing to compare it to. Even though there isn’t. But still…
“but dont forget to stop and buy some milk on the way”
…and pot pourri. And a giant tub of astra-glide.
Unimpressed, human institutions will always have problems. Are RC clergy any more likely to be child molesters than Southern Baptists or Orthodox Jews?
Maverick, you really didn’t answer my question. Why would the military want a subset of the popultation that is 50 times more likely to be HIV positive and not know it?
As regards to being a practicing Christian, I’m sure you are in the same sense that Bill Clinton is or Ted Kennedy was…Andrew Cuomo claims to be a Roman Catholic as he wakes up every morning with his whore.
It’s probably time to develop some intellectual honesty.
@maverick but i dont get the ones with the hair on them, ya I just dont
LoL! the religious jokes are hilarious! I was a practicing Catholic (not a very good one). Went to Catholic school (yes the funny little dress uniforms, and mean nuns) and i absolutely hated it. Do you know how embarrassing it is to be caught in a drug store trying to buy condoms while a nun who works at your school catches you? Then she tells me how dirty sex is if i am not married. SO I replied if it’ s so dirty then why do i have to save it for someone that i love? needless to say that got me kicked out faster than a 7.62 out of a smoking ak-47 barrel.
Maverick your breeders joke and dildos joke are also hilarious, I’m recycling them!
“I will do what all parents should do, and teach my kids that *bigotry* is wrong.”
Riiiiight…and by extension Roman Catholics are bigots, Greek Orthodox are bigots, Orthodox Jews are bigots, Southern Baptists are bigots, etc.
Thanks for making my case. What denomination are you by the way, that celebrates degeneracy?
Can someone not have religious beliefs or just baptized and brought into a church and still have nasty butt-secks? What if a man and woman who’ve been married wanna do some oral presentations? Sodomy be damned… I want my oral presentations! That’s why we invented confessions and forgiveness.
You know what anyone who tells me i can’t get a blowjob can seriously get bent. I tolerate a lot but no one will tell me I can’t get my head
Hey just wondering if sodomy is going to still be illegal for the gays like it is for the straights! Since if a soldier talks about anal sex with a woman and another soldier over hears it and it bothers them they can file sexual harrassment charges against said soldier as well as be discharged for the simple act of sodomy with his spouse! As well as blowjobs which are actually against the rules in the Army only authorized sexual position is the MISSIONARY! Anything else CAN be a chapterable offense! And if two gays have sex in said MISSIONARY position is it NOT still sodomy as that is the ONLY way two guys can have actual sex! Just wondering so that EVERYONE can have equal RIGHTS behind closed doors! Or hey maybe we could leave it as do who or what you want in the bedroom just DO NOT talk about it or face getting the boot! And make it fair also if a straight soldier gets the boot for saying this is GAY! ( as we have alllll said I am sure! ) If a said GAY and proud soldier makes comments referring to anything or anyone being straight in a derogatory way that said soldier should also face the BOOT! And then we have NO military people above the grade of private and our flag and way of life gets changed to us having to learn CHINESE when they come over claim the land as THEIRS and we can do NOTHING to stop it!
I’m not a practicing Christian although I was born and raised Catholic and agree with unimpressed “haven’t we already argued that religion is probably the biggest source which fuels hatred and intolerance?”
To be Christ like is very commendable as are the basic foundations behind most religions, however religions in themselves fuel so much of the wars that you are fighting
“Maverick, you really didn’t answer my question. Why would the military want a subset of the popultation that is 50 times more likely to be HIV positive and not know it?”
^ Because they’ll find out pretty damned fast in MEPs? I dunno, I find the HIV argument to be intellectually retarded. I’ve hung around tons of gays and lesbians over the past seven years or so, and I’ve never even met someone with HIV.
“As regards to being a practicing Christian, I’m sure you are in the same sense that Bill Clinton is or Ted Kennedy was…Andrew Cuomo claims to be a Roman Catholic as he wakes up every morning with his whore.”
^ Ooooh, I forgot, your denomination must be the one with the only *real* Christians. My bad.
Hope you don’t eat any shrimp or wear polyester, you cute little hellraiser you.
@ JN – you know what really should irritate you, JN? The fact that all of us sinners are down here beneath your soapbox on high are practicing our “Free-Will” and enjoying life as you struggle to cope with your life of righteousness while blaming everyone for the declination of man. Meanwhile you’re clicking on porn links in your favorite whacking chair with a bottle of jergens trying to fill up your 100 terabyte hard-drive with lesbians and two guys one girl action for your upcoming deployment.
@Hunterplt23 – RTFM, or if you’re one of those video game dudes, Read the Quest Text, Noob. We’ve covered that already.
“Riiiiight…and by extension Roman Catholics are bigots, Greek Orthodox are bigots, Orthodox Jews are bigots, Southern Baptists are bigots, etc.”
^ Only the ones like you.
“Thanks for making my case. What denomination are you by the way, that celebrates degeneracy?”
Well I’m a recovering Southern Baptist, but I attend a Unitarian Universalist church now. Because I like kumbayah better than fire-and-brimstone, I’m not going to lie.
And by the way, you foaming at the mouth about “degenerates” doesn’t really help your case, Warren. It just makes you look cray cray.
What, once again no answer? C’mon, you ought to be proud of your denomination, so enlightened I’m sure? UCC perhaps? How about UU? Swedenborgians are enlightened I think.
And why is it again that we need a subset of the population 50 times more likely to be HIV positive and not know it included in the force? This helps readiness how? What if they contract HIV after they complete training.
Do tell us wise one.
come to think of it, in all my years of being a lez I have never met any gay person with aids either, I do however know a straight girl with HIV and she caught it from a straight guy. and i wasnt scared to let her rent a room from me for a while fearing I might catch the AIDS from her damn straight sexing around
“And why is it again that we need a subset of the population 50 times more likely to be HIV positive and not know it included in the force? This helps readiness how? What if they contract HIV after they complete training.”
^Population control? Maybe one of them will sneeze on you.
“Maverick you’ve got to be the funniest damn lez bean I’ve ever interacted with. Also the first. But don’t let that make you feel there’s nothing to compare it to. Even though there isn’t. But still…”
^ I seriously doubt I’m the first lesbian you’ve ever interacted with (we’re eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeverywhereeeeee) but thanks all the same. 🙂
Ahhhh, only some Catholics are bad, some Mormorns, some Baptists? I’m guessing that only the ones that believe in their faith and don’t want their children taught that wrong is right are the bigots.?
Would Billy Graham qualify as a bigot? How about John Paul II?
“And why is it again that we need a subset of the population 50 times more likely to be HIV positive and not know it included in the force?”
^ Because we’re losing two wars?
I think it’s a pretty obvious fucking answer. If people want to volunteer to be meatshields, who the hell are YOU to stand in their way?
“Ahhhh, only some Catholics are bad, some Mormorns, some Baptists? I’m guessing that only the ones that believe in their faith and don’t want their children taught that wrong is right are the bigots.?”
You fundamentalist Christians can teach your spawn whatever you want, as long as you don’t push their beliefs on others who do not share them.
Like I said, it’s a free fucking country.
In part because of the gays and lesbians who fight for your right to a bigot.
“Population control? Maybe one of them will sneeze on you.”
…and maybe one of them will end up donating blood and a Marine or Soldier (or a family member) will end up getting HIV. Of course, this is the price we have to pay for an enlightened force, right?
“…and maybe one of them will end up donating blood and a Marine or Soldier (or a family member) will end up getting HIV. Of course, this is the price we have to pay for an enlightened force, right?”
^ You don’t think gays don’t donate blood NOW? All they do is ask you, “Have you had homosexual relations in the last six months?” or some bullshit like that. It’s not like they give you a lie detector test or anything.
Well, that’s what your elected leaders want. You want to change it? Run for office.
I’m sure you’ll get lots of votes running the “my religion can kick your dads ass” campaign.
“Well, that’s what your elected leaders want. You want to change it? Run for office.”
^ And it’s what the American people overwhelmingly want to.
So I don’t know what to tell you except, “Suck it up (no homo).”
Is the Pope a fundamentalist? Patriarch Kirill? Thomas Monson?
I’m not Catholic, so I don’t give a bear shit in the woods about the Pope. And I have no idea who those other two people are, so I can safely say I don’t give a bear shit in the woods about *them*, either.
low income heterosexual young adult males are also a high risk group and doesnt that make up a lot of the enlisted population? Should we exclude them from fighting?
@ JN – are you a chaplain? You sure do know a lot about your religion.
Why do I get the feeling JN is giving us a list of the photos he jacks off to before he goes to sleep at night?
i don’t know about you but I’ve been fascinated lately with the history of the vatican and the different empires of those times and some of those popes were some damn naughty freaks
“oOOooooo, Billy, take it!”
Maverick is going to be the first douche we bounce out for being a loud mouth jack ass.
@ maerick omg take that thought back from my head I dont want that image
Well, the funny thing about Jesus Freaks is that they will die trying to convert us “sinners” to righteousness. I’m not even gay and this guy has me rooting for the gays now. Thanks JN… now I’m a sympathizer.
Mstersmith – OH, so it’s okay for YOU GUYS to make gay jokes about vaseline and gerbils and whatnot, but I can’t? Figures.
Straight guys take the fun out of EVERYTHING.
I never talked to her before today and I have found her witty, intelligent and funny and proud to be in the military and proud to get some well deserved rights to not hide in the closet anymore
” You don’t think gays don’t donate blood NOW?”
Thanks for making my point. They’re not supposed to are they…ever? It’s the policy for the Red Cross and the bottom line is that it endagers the blood supply.
equal opprtunity jokesters here. its only funny if ya make fun of them all
“Well, the funny thing about Jesus Freaks is that they will die trying to convert us “sinners” to righteousness. I’m not even gay and this guy has me rooting for the gays now. Thanks JN… now I’m a sympathizer.”
^ This is why I just let the holy rollers run their mouths. They bring more people over to the cause than I *ever* could, just because people don’t want to be associated with people who act like self-righteous asshats.
Okay, my previous comments about JN making sweet, sweet hand-love to photographs of Emperor Ratzinger were completely out of line. I sincerely apologize to any and all Catholics who may have been offended.
Excuse me while I go put a nail through my palm to drive the image from my dirty degenerate mind.
“Thanks for making my point. They’re not supposed to are they…ever? It’s the policy for the Red Cross and the bottom line is that it endagers the blood supply.”
My point being, they obviously don’t endanger the blood supply THAT much, or the Red Cross would require all people to have a blood-based STD test before qualifying as a donor. *shrug*
Oh Maverick, I’m sure you’ll be shutting down all the “Holy Rollers” as soon as you get the chance.
But the problem is that regardless of how much you crow and insist on regulations, there will still be a majority within the community that regard your behavior as degenerate. Should those folks leave the service? Guys like Carl Mundy or Charles Krulak?
Should the grandchildren of traditional folks be taught that “Butch” Maverick and her “partner” are the same as their mother and father?
@ mstersmith – I think the first douches you should bounce out are your fucking malingerers, fat-bodies, and Corps haters… you know, LCpl Dickface who’s been in the Corps for what, 10 minutes and hates it. So he drives around in his brand new car or truck that the Corps bought him without having to worry about layoffs or getting fired for the next 3.5 years at least with a fucking EAS sticker on the back window?
Why don’t you worry about the real problem in the Corps? Worry about pussy SNCO’s who would rather be a PFC/LCpl’s best friend than lay the smack down then blame jr SNCOs / NCOs for not doing their jobs?
Worry about the damned Colonels who are in charge of a base/unit who get busted for a DUI/DWI and instead of getting hammered like a junior Marine would, he gets a slap on the wrist and continues to draw his $10,000/month paycheck.
Worry about the SNCOs that stand out in front of a fucking formation for 30 minutes preaching safety rules get busted speeding on base but don’t even get as much as an adverse fitrep.
Instead of worrying about cocky Marines who want to serve the country and Corps who happen to take a dick to the face, why don’t you help address the current real problems that you can change? Enforce a dress code or grooming standard for starters.
“Emperor Ratzinger” …ahh, a little veiled anti-Catholicism, there we are. Don’t you feel better now that you have let it out.
Now how about a slur against the evil Mormons or Baptists?
even porn stars take that STD test now that gives you an almost immediate result. They are more concerned with the possibility of spreading that HIV through the porn community the the red cross is with transfusions
“But the problem is that regardless of how much you crow and insist on regulations, there will still be a majority within the community that regard your behavior as degenerate. Should those folks leave the service? Guys like Carl Mundy or Charles Krulak?”
^ They can leave if they feel that strongly about fighting side by side with me. If they do, then good riddance to bad rubbish. If you’re *that* afraid of being tainted by homosexuals just by being in proximity to them, not only do you probably have some kind of repressed latent homosexuality that is damaging you in a psychologically unhealthy way, you’re a coward. So I’ll tell you what I’d tell any coward – if you’re that butthurt about it, get the hell out of my Marines.
“Should the grandchildren of traditional folks be taught that “Butch” Maverick and her “partner” are the same as their mother and father?”
^ Like I said, you can teach your rugrats whatever you want, and I’ll teach mine. But I’m also making sure mine has a black belt. So the first time your kid tries to pick a fight with mine about his/her “bull dyke” mommy, my kid is going to have prior permission to put yours in the dirt.
‘Cause Mama didn’t raise no sissies.
And it’s interesting that you identify me as butch. Do I have a masculine writing style or something? For all you know, I’m a lipstick lesbian.
“”Emperor Ratzinger” …ahh, a little veiled anti-Catholicism, there we are. Don’t you feel better now that you have let it out.”
^ Actually I’m just a Star Wars nerd.
“Instead of worrying about cocky Marines who want to serve the country and Corps who happen to take a dick to the face, why don’t you help address the current real problems that you can change? Enforce a dress code or grooming standard for starters.”
^ Hell yeah, man. Couldn’t have said it better myself. *thumbs up*
mormon chicks are hot and baptist girls are easy and everyone knows catholic girls are freaks in the bed
Nah…I’ll hang on to the Mundys and Krulaks of the USMC and I’ll let you go. Don’t be surprised if you get a “Reagan Executive Order” moment from President Perry. I’m sure you’re old enough to remember President Reagan’s “We Ask, Don’t Join” policy?
A great policy from a great president.
Actually, I’m not old enough to remember Reagan at all, I’m 26. 🙂
(Old people are so cute!)
He was a great acto, he worked with Monkeys
he paved the way for Arnold in Cali who has done a bang up job
@ Maverick – you want to see him get really pissed? Tell him that Carter was a better president in his sleep.
his wife started that great DARE program that really helped the war on Drugs. We fought that war with such success.
Jimmy Carter? Dude, I’m from Alabama. That’s not a name here, that’s a swear.
hey he won the nobel peace prize didnt he?
“even porn stars take that STD test now that gives you an almost immediate result”
There we are, the pornographic industry as a benchmark for the military blood supply.
Oh, and by the way, I am a butch. Just for the record.
So good gaydar, JN!
@wth – so did Obama… what’s the point? Plus, Carter didn’t win it until 2002 when he wasn’t in charge of a Country.
“There we are, the pornographic industry as a benchmark for the military blood supply.”
Actually, the professional pornographic and prostitutional industries set the bar for safety against sexually transmitted diseases. They’re actually a lot better about practicing safe sex than…well, everybody else.
Actually, from your tone it seemed obvious. It’s folks like you that make me sure the U.S. would benefit from resuming conscription, but that is another debate.
hey it makes ya stop and think that those sinners committing all those sex for hire acts are very proactive in stayong healthy long enough to sin another day
“Actually, from your tone it seemed obvious. It’s folks like you that make me sure the U.S. would benefit from resuming conscription, but that is another debate.”
^ Folks like me huh…wow, you would *totally* fit in in Alabama!
But pray tell, what do butch lesbians have to do with conscription? Enquiring minds want to know.
eh I’m not old enough to know much about Jimmys presidency just that he is considered one of the most successful ex presidents and most people that like Reagan hated Carter. And he liked peanuts.
I think I totally fit within my demographic group princess, I know I do as a matter of fact. If you’re interested in the subject read about Pew Political Typology; there is plenty about demographics you probably don’t know.
As regards conscription, the military would benefit with it (in my opinion) because it would allow the military to improve the quality of recruit that they are getting.
and he had that whole hostage thing going on when i was a lil one and he is considered to be a president who didnt accomplish much as president
JN – So let me get this straight – you are saying that you feel all homosexuals are inferior soldiers based on their sexual orientation, rather than their merit?
Good luck selling that to the Myspace set.
And what’s with this “princess” nonsense? Are you trying to make some kind of point? Trying to emasculate me and put me in my place or something?
Lame. (And sexist. But mostly lame.)
I’ll give it to you though. For the Pope jokes.
how so because it will force people who dont want to fight to figh instead of the ones that want to live and breathe that kind of life and we should be thanking them decide to enlist
I actually support conscription as well, just because I think that all young men and women can benefit from the military.
Gay or straight.
However, I think people in a free country should have the option to be a pacifist (or apathetic to military affairs) if they so choose.
thanking them for deciding to enlist* damn too tired
I actually think that those who don’t want to be conscripted as soldiers should be conscripted to the Peace Corps.
I can see how the military can benefit all young men and woman but yes people should have a choice to be apathetic
hmm, i never thought of that, that is a good theory
No Maverick, because I don’t think that the romantic element adds to the combat team, it detracts.
As regards the “MySpace” generation, I am concerned what will happen when the military faces a Pusan Perimeter, a Tet Offensive or an Anzio. I think there is a decent possibility that our forces could fold, especially when you get past the combat arms.
People enlist for many reasons, and the military has reduced standards across the board to meet recruiting goals. If somebody really doesn’t want to serve they won’t regardless of their status as draftees or volunteers.
ok im gonna go watch private benjamin now much funnier then saving private ryan. Or maybe stripes.
However I salute all who serve this country for all you do, male, female, gay, straight, white, yellow etc etc, Christian, agnostic, Buddhist, etc, etc. and you lifers bleed patriotism regardless if we are at war, at peace, losing a war, winning. Whether its a just war or unjust war. You all are there to get your job done. and for a lifer who is proud to serve but happens to be gay, i think they shouldn’t be forced to chose being with the person they love and sharing a life with them or working/fighting in the job they love
“ok im gonna go watch private benjamin now much funnier then saving private ryan. Or maybe stripes. ”
You might want to watch something on the Korean War; you might be facing something similar soon.
that said the cover of that magazine is kinda gay
Yeah, it’s totally gay.
Homosexuals are gay.
I mean, pink? Jeez, way to stereotype.
cant i just watch team America world police its got the korean dude and fags working together
oh ya homosexuals are gay then what was all the fuss? but seriously all you Marines have my support no matter who you love. Mary a goat IDC
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In more important news, Opeth will overshadow gay independence day by releasing yet another album on the 20th.
That “Patriot Perspective” article is ridiculous.
I seriously don’t understand people trying to keep gays and lesbians out of the armed forces. It boggles my mind.
From PP, about gays and lesbians being able to bring same-sex partners to the Birthday Ball:
“That’s gay. That’s oppressively gay. That’s totalitarian speech codes gay. That’s “gays will get better treatment” gay. That’s insulting military and martial traditions gay. That’s gay.”
^ How the hell is being able to bring a same-sex partner to a military ball getting “better treatment” than someone who brings an opposite-sex partner? Both people are getting the equal right to choose anyone they’d like as a date.
Yeah, *we’re* the ones being totalitarians.
Hey, all you haters out there, Don’t you have something better to do, like, I don’t know….get an education? 1 Homosexual Marine, Troop, Sailor, or Airman is better than 10 hoodrats who think you owe them respect because they came from the “streets”. And for those of you complaining about homosexuals not being covered under EO and not getting the same benefits as married couples…The military follows Federal Law, and until Federal Law recognizes homosexuals under EO and the Law that covers marriage, the military will not recognize you. Don’t be mad at the military, complain to congress and get them to make the necessary changes so that you can get what’s owed to you.
sad thing is our us marines are seeing this and wanting to quite bcuz the dont ask dont tell policy, which is really sad some had bright futures in their life with the marine corps and wanted to make this their career until this was seen. I honestly dont think they shouldve made this a magazine cover or say anything about this policy the gays can join the marines, thats fine and dandy, but dont share this with everyone…i can see where this is coming an isue for the ones serving now as far as all this goes. but to make this a cover was a little extavagent and shouldnt have been done like this…someone really didnt think this through. this whole sexuality thing shouldnt be brought up in a line of duty such as this.
What the hell happened to the funny comments? I think that JW shit on our semi gay semi not gay parade. tisk tisk. SO we repeal DADT and the gays are in, awesome. Now lets get to pressing matters like letting Marines get full sleeves again or at least we go back to the jokes.
Sarah, I agree the whole ‘in your face’ thing is stupid, but to hide the fact that the services no longer discriminate against one class of citizen would indicate shame. There is nothing shameful in a homosexual serving their country. They can be just as patriotic and capable as the next person. What is shameful is that individuals can be so shallow as to throw away their career because someone in their platoon is gay. If you can’t focus on your mission because you’re thinking about what someone is doing in their bedroom instead, then you don’t belong in the military. If you’re worried about someone harassing you or assaulting you, there has been a policy in effect already to deal with that. The reality is, 99.99999% of the homosexuals that serve, or will serve, don’t want to sleep with their squadmates, and aren’t going to undress you with their eyes. Serve your damned country, not your ignorance.
@Kyle, I agree…..I would think our retirement getting canned would be more important and get people a lil more heated than this.
I’ve read through all the comments posted. Interesting. Having been out of the service since the tail end of 2008 here is my take:
First, While DaDT forced thousands of people to lie about their orientation, it is now gone. Bravo Zulu Servicemen and Women no longer have to lie. Hence “I will not lie, cheat, or steal; nor tolerate anyone that does” can now focus on what it should. Integrity, Duty, Honor, Valor, and above all Unit cohesiveness.
Since DaDT is now a moot issue, NJP’s, Courts Martials; general, special, or otherwise can be utilized for better purposes. This will save time and money for both the Department of the Navy and the Corps.
Second: whether or not a member of the Armed Forces is “Gay” or a “Homosexual” is a moot point. Personal conduct within the Corps both here at home and down range will not change. There is a reason why the Corps is the finest fighting force around the Globe. The enemy still doesn’t care about an individual Enlisted or Marine Corps Officer’s sexual orientation.
OPSEC is still OPSEC regardless of a whether or not the radio operator is gay or not.
As for individual Marines choices to stay or quit over this issue. Hmm. Seems to me that the EGA is still what it is and always shall be. Not everyone can be a Marine, and not everyone should. In the end the Corps shall continue to be defined by the men and women who choose to carry on the tradition of our forefathers. In the end the Marine Corps shall still be the Marine Corps.
Now with regard to those of you who hold personal opinions about how the repeal of DaDT is going to adversely affect the Corps. I have but this to say.
Your opinion is your opinion. However, If you currently hold a billet in the United States Marine Corps; and choose to publicly display your opinion which may shine a distasteful light upon this subject remember one thing. Your conduct as a Marine Corps NCO, Staff NCO, or Officer should remain as such. It is up to you who are still in the service to be and example and set the example of the principles of leadership.
With that said, lets get back to what is important. Like another cup of coffee, or a serious conversation.
Hey not all of the Marine Corps, is gay….I mean come on, that is between you and God…..But don’t say that to me, this is totally disgusting, I am outraged……that is between you and God, and you will have to answer him….but keep that to yourself, thank you.
Hey I had to earn my Eagle Globe, and Anchor…..through MCRD San Diego, still I have to prove that I am in the Marine Corps, still as a God fearing Marine, you being “gay”, is between you and the Almighty God, not me…..so respect my opinions as a human being, but someone telling others that he/she is “gay”, is not needed….for the love of God keep that to yourself….not everyone wants to hear that….I mean come on…..do you have to put that type of information out there..?
I agree with you Peter. Each Marine has had to earn his or her own EGA. Not an easy accomplishment; and one that every member of the Corps can be proud of.
A person’s sexual orientation should stay a part of their private life. I don’t care whether they are straight or gay. That particular line item should be kept at home. The only thing a Marine should bring to his or her job is the ability to do said job.
The only thing I cared about when I was in; was the ability of each Marine in the squad (from the squad leader down to the SAW operator) to do their job.
Knowing your job and the job of the Marine next to you is more important than knowing their sexual orientation.
Holy Shit – did you all sleep last night? I see how it is, leave the fat out of the fun and pick him for dodge ball (no pun) just as a humor factor. I hit the rack at 2130 with like 183 post. This is awesome. See, we’re joking and laughing and still getting our points across. I agree with a previous post – if someone cannot change (and we all) as you have see from the begginng of this, and they choose to get out – fine. Good luck with the job hunting. But on a serious note – @ stoolpushr – I’m with you brother, I’m recycling and using those dildo jokes, oh and that fish one of yours. I say we just go start drinking, sing the hyme and get twisted out of the frame (easy) drunk. So what its only 0630. This goes into effect sat, lets kick this movement now. Its good. We got questions and concerns that will be answered. Lastyly at this point…, I think it was Crusty who made the outstanding point of this being bootstrapped to Not lieing, cheating stealing, etc. Good point Crusty. Alright – now where are the friggen jokes, unimpressed, stoolpushr and wth?
@ Kyle and Crusty. Gents this topic and our retirements are equally important. While this one is on the front burner, you can be rest assured the other is of equal imprtance to all. As you both have said, we all earned the title. We joke about which is harder San Diego or Gilligan’s Island, I mean PI (two tours in the grid) I’ll take SD – but in the end we are all Marines with a job to do. yes, a person’s sexual orientation should be kept private. This factor just lets them serve openly. A few posts ago, someone said that this will be a non issue in a few years. The hard thing to swallow if the change factor, not that anyone is gay. B/c we as service men and women hate change, its human nature. But change was made by President Truman or Eisenhower for integration of the service, Dr. King added his thoughts in, and now we are here. Bottom line, if they can carry their load, set up aiming stakes, bubble a mortar, lead a squad (absent garrison or combat and regardless of MOS and Gender) run with the ball. Most of us in the beginning have had greater concerns than we have now 300 postings later. I think it is the Ethos and love for our organizations, that come up front and push our differences aside. My dad, who was an 0351 in Vietnam has told me from day one, take care of your Marines and your Corpsman. Do your job to the best of your ability, and take corrective action and help others absent race, color creed, gender, and now sexual orientation. I think that last part is the most valid point given that their are 58k reasons why we do what we do and should allow the same to all.
Now where are my damn jokes stoolpushr!?
“But don’t say that to me, this is totally disgusting, I am outraged……that is between you and God, and you will have to answer him….but keep that to yourself, thank you.”
^ I love how it takes a pink magazine cover to outrage you, and it took two hundred and thirty six years for us to get outraged enough to make it an issue in the first place.
And you say *we’re* the pansies.
C’mon, brothers. That’s just gay. And not the cool gay, the stupid one.
Fred – As far as gay guys being “the right type” to be soldiers, I’ll tell you to do a social experiment. A simple observation.
Pull up some pictures of gay pride and take a hard look. Not at all the Mardi Gras party bullshit, at the actual young men just walking around and dancing around in their underwear on the floats.
Keep in mind these guys – who dance in their underwear once a year to represent their lack of shame at openly being who they are – go back to being regular people the rest of the year. Many of them are disciplined, high performers at their jobs, and most of them have something to prove to somebody. Pride parades are political activism, and activism signifies someone who wants to be considered equal, someone who feels that they have something to offer society and wants the chance to prove it.
Yes, I’m sure there’s a couple of strippers in the mix, but we have our share of doctors and lawyers and hot nerdy computer science queers as well. And we have more than our share of university students, because gay guys are some of the best college performers statistically. So it’s not just all witty banter, a lot of them are actually really intelligent, which is why they end up in the top tiers of privatized business.
But just as importantly, look at them. It’s a bunch of *hardbodies*. People who are built like a brick shithouse, more or less. Tell me we don’t need more people who already have a dedicated gym schedule and washboard abs in the forces.
There is nothing about the average gay or lesbian that doesn’t make them unfit for the service, except for the fact that many of them have no interest in it because the military has told them in no uncertain terms that it doesn’t want them.
Nevermind the fact that gays and lesbians form one of the cornerstones of Western society (you know Greeks and all their crazy homo-love were the ones who started this whole civilization in the first place) and have a rich and colorful military history that goes back farther than any other American soldier. Forget all that, they’re queer, we don’t want ’em!!!
I can see smoking coming out of your ears already, so I’m going to preemptively strike your “OH NOES THE DRAG QUEENS!” outraged response.
Q: But Maverick, why do the queers have to dress up like drag queens at pride parades?
A: To celebrate that it was drag queens and butch women who started the gay rights movement in the first place, in response to years of police persecution and brutality.
In the 50s and 60s, it was illegal for a woman to have less than three pieces of women’s clothing on. If she didn’t – that is, if she was completely in drag – she would be beaten, possibly gang-raped (it was not an uncommon occurence by any stretch), and sent to jail. Vice versa for a man. Ask yourselves – would you support such a law today?
If the answer is yes, consider how different (or not) that stance is from the stance of the Taliban, who also employ “morality police” to enforce theocratic law against men and women.
Disagree with the lifestyle? Don’t like the behavior you THINK is typical in gays and lesbians (it’s not, by the way)? Then allow it to change. Allow gays and lesbians to serve honestly. Show gay youth that there is more to life than clubs and liberal activism.
Let them serve a higher purpose.
To Maverick, hey that is what I think, and hey you know that I can voice my own opinion thank you very much. And guess what your going to have to answer to God sooner or later, sorry it’s the way that it is….
@MSgt, USMC (Ret.)
…you asked for it, but you said it better than we can…
“hard thing to swallow”
“carry their load”
“come up front”
That’s what she said, that’s what she said, that’s what she said!
@ unimpressed – it will all work out in the end. We all have our opinions and eventually, we come to a collective agreement. Now where are the jokes!
“To Maverick, hey that is what I think, and hey you know that I can voice my own opinion thank you very much. And guess what your going to have to answer to God sooner or later, sorry it’s the way that it is….”
^ Hey, you’re welcome to your opinion. I will defend to the death your right to that opinion. But that doesn’t mean I can’t have something to say about it. I don’t have to “live and let live” while other people are forcing their religion on me WHEN I AM IN THE SAME DAMNED RELIGION.
Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s. This is not a Judeo-Christian theocracy, this is the United States of America. And not everyone believes in your God, and amongst those who do, not everyone believes what you do.
Yes, we’ve gathered you are capable of an opinion. But this whole “answer to God sooner or later” bit… Nice touch. right on par with the Westbourough nutjobs. Quite frankly I’m tired of people bringing their religious views into this and any other argument.
“God” isn’t going to carry your combat load for you; nor is he going to come down and stop a stray round down range.
But if you think he will, please by all means invite him to the party. We’ll save an MRE and a bottle of water for him. Don’t forget the gold plated keys for the Humvee and the “R&R” leave chit now available at the BAS along with the brass balls every boot seems to have dropped.
But seriously, Formation will be held at 0315 Sunday for all who would like to join the God-Squad. I hear Wagner (a port-a-John artist) will be appointed the new squad leader along with a troop of Drag queens and nellies to form a new fire team after the pink police call.
Like MSgt said, it WILL all work out in the end. If you don’t believe him feel free to ask any of us disabled vets. I’m still ticked off over the horrible VA coffee.
@ GrumpyVet – hell yeah brother. VA Coffee and SUCKS! God will help you mentally carry your load – but you are the one carrying it, and your brother and sister loads to if they go down. This is, as I said before will work out in the end. We need to get the important issues with this, the economy, our retirements, the nation’s security, etc all on the table – chop it up into an organized mess – and get after it. Solve it and take care of those who have taken care of us and allowed us to be where we are. I know that I have my opinions just like any one else. But a closed mind solves nonthing. Throughout all of these postings you can see how people’s views and opinions changed as the conversation went on. That is called progress.
BZ on the “Mentally carry your load” part. Unfortunately the reality of what is actually important will not set in for many young Marines for many years. That is as they say “just the way things are”.
A 5 paragraph order (as much as I hated those things) is important.
The welfare of each individual Marine in a the Company, Platoon, squad, and fire team is important.
Helping fellow Marines and Docs do well, learn their job, advance in paygrade, and stay out of harms way off duty IS important.
Getting your ducks in a row before Retirement, and or when you are getting out of the service VERY important.
Helping a fellow combat veteran figure out how things work at the VA, getting to all appointments, and being there to just listen EXTREMELY important.
Sitting at a computer lamenting over the repeal: NOT IMPORTANT.
Then again, those of us who are not in the service any longer know absolutely nothing at all. After all, what could we know? lol
Open minds change the world around you; closed minds extinguish the torch of inspiration and the opportunites waiting beyond the horizon. The hall mark of a good leader is the ability to listen first and act after all the details of a SITREP have been assessed. A good leader does this not because it is easy; but because it is in the best interest of the men he leads.
This is also another form of progress.
@MSgt, USMC (Ret.) – “Now where are the jokes!”
^I thought my post WAS the joke… See #328
Q: What you do call a room full of 50 politicians and 50 lesbians?
A: 100 people who don’t do dick!
It’s unfortunate that some think homosexuality will taken into consideration for promotion. In reality those who say this might happen are oblivious to the promotion process. First, because this information isn’t on master brief sheets or fitness reports. Second, promotion boards are held in confidence and one can only speculate why they were passed over. I remember this from when I was still an NCO and Marines thought they were beat on a board just because they were competing against a female. NO, dumbass its because they were $hit hot and you weren’t. Marines, get over the fact that you don’t like this change. Since when did we have the right to question our superiors orders and guidance?
“That’s gay”- A lot of complaining has been going on about not being able to say this phrase? God forbid we should have to be more professional.
Crybabies quit crying, accept this change, and on the Corps shall strive and flourish.
“Semper Fidelis” <<<<<<<<<<<<< Do you remember what that means?
‘”That’s gay”- A lot of complaining has been going on about not being able to say this phrase? God forbid we should have to be more professional.’
^ I agree. I said this same phrase mockingly earlier, but the truth is that this kind of talk makes ALL Marines look like they have the mentality of fourth graders.
The civvies get nervous when they see people with the mentality of fourth graders carrying assault rifles.
We should all aspire to a level of dignity (and good-natured humor) that reflects well on the American military as a whole.
I think that gay people are just as likely to say “That’s gay” as straight people are. As some people in this thread have pointed out, it’s usually not used in the context of homosexuality at all. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t still a lazy and inaccurate descriptor though, usually used by someone who is whining about something.
All you religious BIGOTS get the the hella out of my Corps and go join Westboro’s cult of hatred. They would love to have some more self-despising closet cases. You are the real danger to cohesion!!
when people say that’s gay i simply say ha really seemed kinda straight to me and then when something really brillent happens I say now that’s gay
Whenever someone says, “That’s gay,” with any tone of whining disgust, I usually reply, “Yeah, I think it’s pretty cool too.” =)
id really love to hear more about people being so upset on this page but damn I wasted a lot of work time yesterday. I will however come back and check the jokes out, but hey not just gay ones, lets see some equal opportunity jokes. Right, left, marine, civilian, gay, straight.
Q: What do you get when you cross a straight man and a straight woman?
A: Three kids, a mistress and two divorce lawyers!
Defending the institution of marriage, indeed. Lmao.
hey i was thinking, they shouldnt be worried about lesbians bringing another chick back to the barracks, its not like they have access to uhauls out there?
Man, its shit like this that makes me wish the Nazis won.
Alright, jokes aside, here is my 2 cents as a straight white male in the Army:
Equal Opportunity – everyone has the equal opportunity to be offended by me. You don’t like it, change the Constitution. By serving, I give up parts of my rights and watch as Congress and Liberals degrade my original benefits package.
Minority rights engenders bias against whites.
Women rights engenders bias against men.
Gay rights engenders bias against straights.
Anyone who shows any dissent against these ‘rights’ is a target for ridicule and called an oppressor. Screw that noise.
As for the cover, yeah I laughed. I even shared the pic with my lesbian friend. Personally, I thought the cover was more about the need to quit bitching about it. Its done and all we can do is take a knee, drink water, and move out.
With the repeal of DADT I thought up a new Slogan for the Army: There is Gay and then there is Army Gay. Can you take it?
My personal views: I have no issues with lesbians but I object to gay men. Not because of the acts themselves, women do those too, but because the conduct is unmasculine. I suppose that makes me hypocritical, get over it. Overall though, I support homosexuality because I believe in population control and natural selection. I am uncertain if they should retain custody of children due to the prevalence of preconditioning.
very strange, my parents were straight and I am a lesbian. I happen to have a son because some straight white male thought the lesbian needed to be schooled on that a real man could change her. Ya horrible ordeal but long time ago and my son is turning 16 and very straight, even a sports nut and i dont know a thing about sports but he chose to watch sports since he was like 3 all on his own. preconditioning my ass.
“I have no issues with lesbians but I object to gay men. Not because of the acts themselves, women do those too, but because the conduct is unmasculine.”
So you’re a misogynist then? What’s wrong with feminine conduct? Plenty of military women are able to be feminine and still be damned good soldiers. What does it matter what the plumbing is if the behavior itself is unobjectionable?
I think you just don’t like to see feminity expressed openly by another man, because it means all of the male mantras – stoic silence, invincibility, toughness, calm, etc… – are really unnecessary standards that men hold themselves to.
“Equal Opportunity – everyone has the equal opportunity to be offended by me. You don’t like it, change the Constitution. By serving, I give up parts of my rights and watch as Congress and Liberals degrade my original benefits package.”
^ Funny, your argument is the exact same argument used by the gay rights movement, except replace “liberals” with “fundamentalist conservatives”.
Otherwise, the sentiment is identical.
So whose rights win out? My right to be treated like a human being, or your right to curb-check me, like what happened to this poor bastard a few weeks back: http://www.homorazzi.com/article/dane-hall-curb-stomped-salt-lake-city-club-sound-gay-bashing-fox-13-news-report-broken-jaw/
We need protection from shit like this. Nobody else goes out on a Saturday night and has to worry about somebody murdering them on the way home.
Why should we?
By the way, there have been what would be considered some pretty offensive remarks on this forum, and I don’t see a single queer jumping up in arms about it. All and all, most of us are able to have a pretty good sense of humor about it.
We’re tough. We can take shit. And we’re increasing able to dish it back out.
I do not expect any of this PC Powerpoint bullshit to end up in actual foxholes, where I can’t imagine that any of this stuff would matter at all. Doubt it would come up in a combat situation, if you know what I mean.
i dont pretend to know what goes on out there in ur semper fi world, but in reading these posts i get you all are strong marines, however the wit and intelligence that I see in people like mav and unimpressed and MSgt, USMC (Ret.) makes me feel secure that they can handle challenging situations with their strength and minds and that makes me feel far more secure.
Looks like a happy ending for all involved.
See what I did there?
This cover is so inciting. 350 comments?
I have to add my two cents. I’m OK with hot lesbians.
Even if you’re not invited?
It kills me how many straight guys are accepting of lesbians as pornographic sexual objects, but act like women jumping up on a chair over a house mouse when they are forced to acknowledge gay men.
You can unclench your cheeks now men. The overwhelming majority of gay men only want to sleep with other gay men.
Your ass in the clear…literally.
The headline certainly is an attention grabber. More interesting than the article, however, are the comments, from all parts of the spectrum. I had to laugh at the one who said something to the effect of “this headline makes it look like all marines are gay” and that made me think about the assumptions made about sexual orientation, and how this puts the shoe onto the other foot a bit. Instead of assuming all marines are straight some will assume they are all gay. Pretty funny. Personally I have known gay and straight marines.
My father was a Marine. I was a Marine. My son is a Marine. We voted with our lives for this organization. Give us a say as to it’s future. Today’s commanders have the responsibility to keep the USMC the institution that it has always been. Obama should have to pin generals stars on guys standing on yellow footprints. My USMC is a museum piece.
^ And what about gay and lesbian Marines…do they not get a say in the future of the Corps as well? Have they not paid enough sweat and blood to have a say?
For those who are concerned about serving next to people you view as living “immoral lifestyles”…I’d be willing to bet my whole paycheck not a single damned one of you has ever complained about the “lifestyles” of the hundreds of people who are enlisted every year under felony waivers.
So you don’t mind serving with convicted felons, but you don’t want to serve with a guy who is a stellar Marine and just happens to be a little light in the loafers?
Which demographic do you think is *really* more likely to sexually assault you?
“Man, its shit like this that makes me wish the Nazis won.”
^Not even funny. Keep that shit in your head, Aryan.
Ssgt, you didn’t know that the military HAS had racial and sex preferences recently? Did you know that the military basically discriminates against white male applicants to Annapolis or West Point? Google up Lamberth Decision Military Discrimination if you want to read up on the issue.
hey it aint rape if you yell surprise! -ha see I can even laugh at a joke like that, ya its wrong but its still funnnny.
The funny thing to me is many keep saying we already know who you are and that your there and have been there, so I dont get that just the fact they can say oh ya ur right I am gay makes you fear more about your shower time?
Sitting at a computer lamenting over the repeal: NOT IMPORTANT.
Eh, Grumpy Vet…
Eh, writing checks and supporting decent candidates (just as I’m sure you did in 76 & 80 for Governor Reagan) is also important.
Finding productive employment (nongovernmental I’d hope) is important.
Electing a guy who’ll have the fortitude to do right by the military and America, that’s important.
…then again, Reagan was a religious guy so you probably voted for the opposition?
JN – Why does it not surprise me in the slightest to see you pipe up with some reverse discrimination nonsense that doesn’t even concern DADT repeal?
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
As an aside, since we’re all in for eliminating all forms of discrimination, will the services be dropping their lower standards for height, weight and physical fitness currently applied to females?
Maverick….because it was brought in the thread. It sounded as though folks were saying it never occured. It certainly did, and still does.
You don’t want this type of discrimination, right?
Straw man arguments are the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Now I am going to go watch GI Jane
For the record, the physical requirements for women are different than those for men because women are physiologically different than men.
I say drop the difference in physical requirements as soon as women are allowed in open combat units, right alongside the men.
Well since the Pusan Perimeter has shown everyone has to have that basic capability of fighting on the front lines, why not drop them now?
If you don’t think women can meet the requirements set forth for Marine combat units, you haven’t gotten a chance to see them do it.
“Well since the Pusan Perimeter has shown everyone has to have that basic capability of fighting on the front lines, why not drop them now?”
^ I’m all for it, frankly I don’t think there’s that much of a difference. I train to the men’s standard anyway.
Either JN just likes to argue or invents in his life have jaded him with all minorities. Even the white man’s ancestors had to fight some kind of opression way back in the day to get all they have now in the US. There have been class struggles, race struggles, gender struggles, religious struggles all through out HX. And people had to fight to change things for the better so that everyone can pursuit life , liberty and hapiness
The services have already done tests on it, and pass rates are below 30%. You’ll live to see the Department of the Navy billeting homosexual ‘couples’ and helping them to adopt children long before you see the same standards for males & females. The one caveat I’d have is that the standards may be dropped, as they have in so many other ways.
Any of you fellow Marines have anything negative to say, you are no true Marine then. Come say it to my face. I will be more of a man than any of you whom oppose me. Some of you will never ever be the Marine I was.
“The services have already done tests on it, and pass rates are below 30%. You’ll live to see the Department of the Navy billeting homosexual ‘couples’ and helping them to adopt children long before you see the same standards for males & females. The one caveat I’d have is that the standards may be dropped, as they have in so many other ways.”
^ You know, just because you put “couples” in “quotes” doesn’t make them any less of a couple, either in their own eyes or in the eyes of most Americans.
Guess what? People don’t need your approval to love each other (thank God).
And you can rail against gay marriage all you want, you can stand in our way of adoption, you can try to keep us out of the schools, and you can try to keep us out of your churches, but the one thing you can’t ever do is keep us from loving the people we choose to love.
Galling, isn’t it?
Not especially galling nor unusual, it’s as old as Sodom.
I think you need to brush up on your theology. It helps to use a little thing called “historical context”.
Let me ask, JN, do you follow the entire holiness code of Leviticus? Or just the parts that suit your personal prejudices?
Im not a fan of repealing DADT but I understand that it time was coming and I’ll get over it. What I don’t understand is how a publication representing the toughest fighting force in the world would dare make a cover like this. It is repulsing to see my Corps represented in such a manner. Just because there will be a few homosexuals coming out because of this doesn’t mean that the whole Corps is gay.
Take it off the stands and print a new cover!!!
“It is repulsing to see my Corps represented in such a manner. Just because there will be a few homosexuals coming out because of this doesn’t mean that the whole Corps is gay.”
^ SUBTITLES PEOPLE. For Christ’s sake. Did nobody in the Marines get past high school English Comp?
If that city did in fact exist it has been debated by archeologists for just as long
@Maverick. Even if I’m not invited. As long as I am simply privy to a hot lesbian story then that’s good enough to put in the spank bank. Please let me know if you have any. I accept both written and video evidence.
And for the record, I didn’t say I am accepting of lesbians. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. I’m not sure that some of the butch lesbians here are even humans.
I said I’m accepting of “hot lesbians.”
And I’m accepting of “hot lesbians,” yet nauseous when I see gay dudes is because I’m an American, therefore I am a hypocrite.
The military is a reflection of our society. Gays in the military was a matter of time. If I was still a Marine, it would bother me, but I could get over it. And the reason it would bother me is only because I was tired of the issue being so damn important then and now. The “respect gay” classes would also bother me as do the “what happens to your penis when you get the Clap” classes. I still didn’t wear a rubber!
So I am glad DADT is over.
Maybe now we can focus that same energy and passion on our wounded. Or maybe we can get a service rifle that actually kills someone. I’d like Lady Gaga to tweet that. In order.
I digress. So just send me your hot lesbians stories.
well I can appreciate his honesty
“And for the record, I didn’t say I am accepting of lesbians. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. I’m not sure that some of the butch lesbians here are even humans.
I said I’m accepting of “hot lesbians.””
^ Hey, I’m a butch lesbian… :/ (and hot). Lots of younger butch lesbians are – just Google “Lesbians that look like Justin Bieber”.
Don’t hate, appreciate!
“I’m an American, therefore I am a hypocrite.”
^ Being an American and being a hypocrite are not synonymous by design. I’d like to think I try hard not to be hypocritical about stuff when I recognize hypocrisy in my perspective on things.
And I’ve been on the gay scene a long time. In my personal experience, at least half of the lesbians I’ve seen were attractive if not drop dead gorgeous [gah, femmes].
Granted, I like the ladies so I’m a little prejudiced. But seriously…hot lesbians are not unicorns! They really do exist! Just like hot gay guys!
I mean, seriously, have you SEEN Chris Colfer and Darren Criss? Can you get any more motherfucking all-American looking than those two?
(‘Course Criss isn’t really gay, he just plays one on TV and stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.)
I think Ellen’s wife Portia is way hot and Melissa Ethridge’s ex she just left from poplular, well I guess she’s kinda crazy now but way hot
I dont fal into a butch or femme catagory and I’m getting older now but I qualify as pretty and I give that to my mom and her great genes. At least that’s what I’m told. My wife is a lot younger and hot so, I guess i am doing ok
@Maverick. Portia De Rossi is my go 2 hot lesbian for spank sessions. So hot!
If you are a butch lesbian and hot, then my definition of butch lesbian is not the same as yours. How about bull lesbian?
Sorry, but Justin Bieber is a fucking dork. Anyone who looks like him is not attractive and also a fucking dork. My 2 cents. I’d sure like his money though.
Your American. Your also a hypocrite. It’s more a human being thing than just American. It’s natural by design.
I know there are “hot lesbians.” Seen em in San Francisco.
And if your a “hot lesbian,” written and video evidence is acceptable of lesbian acts. I’ll be the judge of your hotness…..because….well….I’m a hypocrite.
Not at all Maverick, you can find an Orthodox Rabbi to explain Leviticus to you, I don’t have the time.
Why not get to work and protest the Boy Scouts on base, they’re the next threat to the march of degeneracy. March on my friend.
“If you are a butch lesbian and hot, then my definition of butch lesbian is not the same as yours. How about bull lesbian?”
^ Well I guess since the lack of attraction is mutual (bull dykes aren’t into you either, I’m afraid) I can’t very well blame you for your sexual proclivities. =D
“Not at all Maverick, you can find an Orthodox Rabbi to explain Leviticus to you, I don’t have the time.”
^ Right. I totally believe you. It’s amazing how when you point out the religious hypocrisy embraced by some fundamentalist Christians on the issue of homosexuality, nobody ever has a fucking thing to say.
Come back when you have more time and grow a spine, JN.
Who says I need mutual attraction?
Sorry Mav, I’m beginning to wonder if you have the intellectual capacity to grasp the concepts involved. Are Roman Catholics or Russian Orthodox or Mormons fundamentalist?
You’re devoted to degeneracy, we got it.
Interesting that I present several arguments for the gay side of the house, but you’re just a broken record with this “degeneracy” bit. It’s actually kind of sad.
From all of the gays and lesbians of the U.S. armed forces, to all of the homophobic members of the U.S. armed forces, with hugs and skips and butterfly kisses:
“STFU and let us do our jobs. Thanks.”
“Who says I need mutual attraction?”
^ No, I mean, straight guys are not typically attracted to masculinity, so it makes sense that you wouldn’t be attracted to butches. Unless you were gay of course. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.)
But anyway, who doesn’t love hot lesbians, amirite?
” It’s amazing how when you point out the religious hypocrisy embraced by some fundamentalist Christians on the issue of homosexuality, nobody ever has a fucking thing to say.”
^Reading these posts and replying is like watching hot girl on girl action – more than amusing.
Seeing a post with JN’s name on it is like the horrible attempt at acting between double-sided wiener scissor fuzz bumping action. You just fast forward through it. Every once in a while you’ll stop to see just to ensure it really wasn’t worth watching.
A patriotism that withers in a nation of justice is no patriotism at all.
When I was discharged from the Navy for being gay, to my surprise, the only military friends that weren’t afraid to reach out to me during the dark days of that investigation were Marines.They instinctively knew bad policy and were not afraid to stand by a shipmate who was hurting and in need. In the end, Marines, you have a tradition to uphold: Stand by your shipmates and remember that a Marine is a Marine PERIOD. I, for one, am proud to know many honorable Marines who, without hesitation or concern for what others thought of them, defended those who were abused, denied their rights, or thown away as inconvenient.
Courage: In the end, that is what is important and makes people admire the Marine Corps. When rights are denied to even one person, there can be no liberty and justice for all.
To those of you NCOs and officers who are on here? Calling the repeal of DADT a disgrace? Badmouthing gay Marines? Shame on you. SHAME ON YOU. You are in charge of gay Marines RIGHT NOW, odds are, and you have a responsibility not just for their lives in combat, but the well-being (to include mental and emotional) at home.
THIS gay former NCO knows enough about honor, duty, and respect to have treated the soldiers (I was in the US Army) under his care equally and without favor nor disfavor. Every soldier I dealt with was dealt with based on their performance as a soldier, not on their private lives. Those of you who are on here saying disgusting things? You are not only a disgrace to your rank and your uniform, you are likely the sort that would endanger your wards based on ridiculous particulars that have ZERO affect on you or their service.
So frankly? Get out of the comments section and do your jobs. We’re gay. GET OVER IT.
“SGT” Finkenbinder, there is nothing honorable in sodomizing you boyfriend and it won’t gain acceptance.
Get busy working with the Obama campaign though because if a Reagan type candidate is elected you may see your gains reversed.
^ I’m sure moderate Christians are turning mauve reading this right now.
Yeah, that’s right. I said mauve. Because I’m queer. Wanna fight about it?
(j/k, in case that wasn’t blatantly obvious)
Sergeant Finkenbinder, I accept your hot uniformed man-on-man action.
And so does over 76% of America, according to the Gallup polls.
67% embrace homosexual sodomy? Send the link!
Oh wait, it was 72% in November 2010. Probably higher now.
I didn’t say “embrace”. I said “accept”.
There’s a smidge of a difference there.
JN, do you take moral issue with sodomy between heterosexual couples? Cunnilingus? Frottage? Blowjobs? Pegging?
I’ll wait while you Google.
It’s amazing how heterosexual sex and homosexual sex are pretty much the same, except in heterosexual relationships you always hear about the guy *begging* his girlfriend for anal and blowjobs, while the gays don’t have to beg for it.
Is that the real crux of the issue between straight guys and gay guys? B-day blowjobs versus twice-a-week-or-I’m-checking-his-pulse blowjobs?
I mean, I’m just trying to understand why peeps are so disgusted when gays basically perform the same sex acts that straights do, they just keep it within one gender.
JN, I handcuffed myself to the White House fence once to highlight the inadequacies of that policy (link here: http://nation.foxnews.com/dont-ask/2010/11/16/dont-ask-dont-tell-arrest-outside-white-house ) and would gladly do so again, JN. To those candidates that are hinting at reinstatement of that policy I say: bring it. Handcuffs are cheap.
And you, JN? I was pretty much talking to you and people LIKE you. Your obsession with what I do in the bedroom is not just a gross violation of my privacy, but tells a lot about yourself. Why are you so fixated on gay sex? Let us move on with our lives and do our jobs.
It’s all about how it is worded:
By the way, I wonder how the public would respond to a question which asked “Should heterosexual service members be forced to share quarters with homosexual service members” would work out?
Ian, just keep away from the blood donation sites, the Boy Scouts, etc. Your perversions aren’t wanted and as the poll of Marines pointed out, will work to the detriment of good order and discipline.
“By the way, I wonder how the public would respond to a question which asked “Should heterosexual service members be forced to share quarters with homosexual service members” would work out?”
^ Based on many of the comments here, there seem to be quite a few military men who don’t give a damn one way or the other.
They’re sharing quarters right now. Many of them know about it and don’t make a big deal about it.
I think you’re borrowing trouble.
The only person who seems to be concerned with perversions here is you. I look forward to seeing you in a gay Pride parade 10 years from now in booty shorts and cowboy boots. Here’s another handy-dandy link:
I have a feeling you’re a quintessential case of “the lady doth protest too much.” Well, lady, why do you protest so much? Got something in YOUR closet?
“Ian, just keep away from the blood donation sites, the Boy Scouts, etc. Your perversions aren’t wanted and as the poll of Marines pointed out, will work to the detriment of good order and discipline.”
^ I’m so happy you’re here to represent the other side of the issue, JN. It’s kind of like having the narrator from “Reefer Madness” to debate against.
You’re all about validating you “lifestyle”. My focus has always been functioning within an organization designed to fight and win America’s wars.
I believe in a strong America and not following a course of modern Romans.
The Sodomy Lobby is out in full force on this forum, but you know that if the policy were ever put to a vote among the war fighters the Reagan Policy would never have been changed.
ha ha ha reefer madness now that was funny!
“You’re all about validating you “lifestyle”. My focus has always been functioning within an organization designed to fight and win America’s wars.”
^ Dude, you don’t know a thing about my lifestyle. You don’t know anything about me other than that I’m a butch lesbian. And a smartass. Those are the only two facts you know about me. The rest of what you *think* you know is speculative bullshit.
I believe that religious freedom, tolerance, and diversity are strong American ideals, and I’m not afraid to stand up for them.
SGT IAN has a point, people can disagree and state an opinion but this guy seems absolutely obsessed with Sodomy. Like those chesters who seem like the american pip neghbor but have all these teangae runaway boys burried in his basement
If DADT encourages every homophobic jackass in the armed forces to quit, it can only increase cohesion as a unit, not break it. Because these same bigots are usually racists, sexists, and religiously intolerant as well.
These are the folks who are sowing dissension and distrust in the ranks. Not the gays.
The gays are too busy proving that they deserve to be there.
“seems absolutely obsessed with Sodomy”
That’s an odd observation from a group that defines themselves as such. WTH, just watch the behavior and keep an eye on your T-Cell count.
I have less chance of getting HIV then you
(Wiki): Homosexuality is romantic and/or sexual attraction or behavior between members of the same sex or gender.
Nope, no sodomy. Not defined as such. Try again.
I dont give or take it up the butt except that one time but I was really drunk
now a finger every now and then I can handle
In 2006, the CDC issued a report stating that there were no confirmed cases of HIV from female-to-female transmission. At all.
and ass to mouth is sometimes acceptable
Ass to mouth is pretty much as gay as it gets. That’s like Anderson Cooper in an upscale sushi restaurant gay.
whats that other one from Clerks …snow balls, how gay is that and straight people aparently do it.
Anderson Cooper lmao
Snowballing? Yeah, how gay is that? Geez, you straight people are kinky.
But I still love you. <3
Real men are not gay
Says who, Sue? You?
I must be delusional then, because I see gay men walking around everywhere, and they’re just as real as the straight ones.
I wouldn’t get anywhere near them. Of course I have standards and so unlike some of the moronic men here
“I wouldn’t get anywhere near them.”
the fairy dust might rub off
watch out your gonna catch the gay!
You’ll be contemplating horrendous interior design in no time.
I have no doubt plenty could be caught from them
What is your definition of a real man?
Oh yeah, like heterosexual people are so pure as the driven fucking snow. Give me a break sweetheart.
better never get married, I’m quite sure a game man probably designed the dress, he might of touched it, then you’ll be playing the 6 degrees of gay in no time!
gay* ha ha toggling back and forth from wtrk to this page is not easy
driven snow, that phrased has always confused me. After driving through the snow it is all black and icky
I’m so excited for the younger generation. They seems to be on the right track with safe sex, religion and tolerance for all.
I’m confused when individuals state that it’s about time there is fair treatment. “Lesbian, Bi-sexual, and Homosexual” service members have been defending this country for years. I have even served with several of them and they have all received fair treatment then, so I don’t know why it will be different now. The argument is openness as the main issue. The need to run out and tell everyone that you are gay is strange because no one runs out and says “hey, I’m straight”. What you do in your spare time is your business. I do however believe that if you prefer the Bat Cave over what nature intended then that’s your business, but the high pitch voice and flamboyancy should not be allowed in the work place for it will be a distraction as well as the hormone injections etc. If service members have to take open showers with gay members, then I think we should just go straight unisex bathrooms, gays regardless if they are interested or not should not get to enjoy showers and bunks with the sex they find attractive…the average man cannot shower with females which some of them they may or may not be attracted too!
Why does any one care does everyone actually expect that the most flamboyant of gays are going to start signing up, and before you know it walk around with their hair in a sock bun. Seriously their are already gays in the military if they come out they come out if they dont they dont and if you could work well with them before you knew why cant you when you do know. Also i agree that the marine times cover is over board, as a degree carrying graphic designer, even though the its got that writing at the bottum to explain itself, the image is the only thing any one will notice.
“The argument is openness as the main issue. The need to run out and tell everyone that you are gay is strange because no one runs out and says “hey, I’m straight”.”
^ The thing about gay visibility is this: it’s necessary to gay rights for gays to self-identify so people can get an idea of how many of us there are.
Why is that important? Because it’s harder to hate gays and lesbians when you find out they’re your siblings, your classmates, your coworkers, your friends, and your clergy. They’re still the same people you knew before, the same people you liked and respected, they just happen to be gay.
It’s important for people to know that gays and lesbians are normal, so we can lead normal lives free of persecution, discrimination, and brutality.
It’s not about rubbing it in anyone’s face at all. It’s about not wanting to be a societal scapegoat anymore. Nobody has the right to treat us like crap just because they disagree with the way we live. We’re all Americans and we deserve to live our own lives without the intrusion of others based on their personal beliefs.
The only rights that are denied in the service are the rights that you waive and agree to when you sign the contract. We have a volunteer service, so for people to feel suppressed or stifled in some shape, form or fashion is strange. Why sign a contract that is in black and white, and then complain about the rules later? Why claim to have fellow service members stand up for what is right when back then it was straight up wrong?…what will the complaint be tomorrow…Let fat people in? Let midgets in? the rules were set to maintain good order and discipline, and now open up wide and get force feed because there is no choice but to take it! There will be a lot of casualties in the coming months and years, get ready!!!!!!!
uh no one wants to shout out “hey I’m gay”, they just don’t want to have to be kicked out just because they are. Straight people don’t have to pretend they are gay and not be able to include their wife in their military life.
I know plenty of straight males that are naturally feminine and plenty of gay guys who are masculine and the same for females. That’s not the entire gay population, just like not every black man loves KFC and watermelon and not every white man likes nascar and wrestling
“I don’t give a fuck about who wants to get married to anybody else! Why not?! We’re making a big deal out of things we shouldn’t be making a deal out of … Just give everybody the chance to have the life they want.” Clint Eastwood
It’s funny how surveys were taken to see how the climate was on this topic…I can assure you that the majority of service members and people were apposed to it, and yet some how it passed?…Ponder that!…If this was not some political bull, I don’t know what is
“There will be a lot of casualties in the coming months and years, get ready!!!!!!!”
^ That’s pretty sick man. Wow.
No wonder our troops dont win wars anymore. The gay problem has demoralized the troops
Actually, I’m not worried. Pretty sure that the queers can take care of themselves, thank you very much.
Being soldiers and all.
ya that is why we dont win none of them there wars!! I wish for the good ol day of Vietnam! Now that was a war! and btw its war it may sometimes be a necessary evil but moral?
Do folks honestly want to go around picking open fights with a group of people who have been getting into fights over their sexuality their entire lives? It’s not like they haven’t had any practice in hand to hand or anything.
Give me maybe three bigots and it’ll be a fair fight.
The USA lost in Vietnam
It would not surprise me if many of the troops refuse to sleep in the same barracks with these misfits and on the battlefield…well you know how those sstray bullets aree
Not all gay people are prancing uber-queens (<cool if you are though). Some gays are either middle of the road or really macho. That's usually the type that joins the military.
More Mulan than Moulin Rouge.
“on the battlefield…well you know how those sstray bullets aree”
^ You’re a terrible person.
the USA didn’t win Vietnam, damn must of been the gays fault back then too
United States Marine Corps
The troops were demoralized for assorted reasons
Today the gays no doubt are demoralizing the real men on the front lines
Seriously, people complain about us being drama queens, but you guys take the cake.
do you picket service men’s funerals too? I know them gays are causing a lot of problems in this world. Get all the gays out now then we will win! We just need a moral booster! that is the tactic the pentagon has been missing, can’t be because warfare in a modern world is far more complicated then it ever was.
Picket funerals? I mean sseriously you are whining now. Why would I even expect more from someone of your caliber.
well you did say now, guess that mean ur admitting to the whining.
Once again someone has to shit on this thread and piss everyone off. There are gay people serving. Get the fuck over it. All I ask is they do their jobs and keep home life at home. Also to the straight people do your damn jobs and keep your home life home. I do not want to know how your sex is with your partner REGARDLESS of you sexuality.
I will say this and I will literally die laughing if it happens. You know when a guy comes into work and complains about his wife and is say she acting like a bitch, I cant wait until a gay dude comes in and says his boyfriend is acting like a fag. I hope I am not drinking or eating anything because I may just choke. If it happens it may be the funniest thing to ever happen ever.
It is too bad that tax monies taken from good upstanding moral individuals are being used to fund these gala gay military events.
To think, at one time we had the best military in the world. Now it is full of men wearing the same kind of panties that I do
my caliber? And what is my caliber? I have two jobs, a wife, a son, a dog and a cat. A snake, but I don’t claim him, its my wife’s. I have a nice home, two cars, bills debt, love, friends and family. Average working class american life.
gala gay military events? wtf? However I don’t think the femmy gay boys would be caught dead in granny panties.
Sueann that comment is one of the most ignorant statements ever made. Our Military specifically the United States Marine Corps is still the fucking best. Oh BTW this STRAIGHT MAN donned a modified thong and ran around in country because I fucking could. They were leopard print and sexy. I just blew your mind that a straight man wore your same panties. Your generalization of gays is so ridiculous that I don’t think you have even met one. The gay men and women I have known are the same as your “pure” people. They like dick and va-jay-jay but it does not make them lesser than you. SOme of these gays have been more loyal to country and their partner than a lot of hetero’s. You ma’am are a du-mas.
How disgusting. A male can not be a wife
sueann … seek therapy, now!
Well said, Kyle!
Only steers and queers come from texas and I don’t see any horns…
How disgusting Sueann cant read. If you would have educated your self in the characters in this thread yo might have known that WTH is of the vagina liking gays and not the penis liking gays. Also if you would use a little fucking common sense you might know that gay dudes are husbands and gay chicks use wifes. I have heard of bi-curious but Bi-stupid? No no you are full stupid
sueann ? Michele Bachmann, what the hell are you doing here???
I can’t wait for the study a couple years down the road on the impact of dadt repeal. The folks who fought so hard and so long to “keep the gays out” are going to look even dumber than they do now. Negative impact post 9/20/11? Non-existent. And if bigots leave the military as a result of the policy change … well that’s just one more reason for the policy to end. Those service men/women who hold and espouse sueann’s viewpoint need to be drummed out. Talk about a morale booster!
gay, straight, who cares? let them serve openly. just keep your sex life away from your professional life.
i’m not gay, i have gay friends, i know some gay marines. they don’t tell me about their weekend sausage fests and i don’t tell them when my wife lets me have anal.
by the way, openly gay marines are nothing new…just look at gung-ho from gi joe: powder blue vest with matching camo bottoms, rippling abs, huge blue ega tatted on his chest and a handlebar mustache. he looked like one of the village people. dude was flaming.
by the way, this publication is absurd, theres no need to get bent out of shape about it. military times are worse than tabloids.
@ sueann, my wife is a female um so am I ? wth
ha ha ha I believe JDL is right down the line people will look at this point in history and say really? Why all the fuss. I didnt even know military times existed. My mom posted this on her face book cuz well she has a retired marine son and a gay daughter and she is quite the political activist. I get bored at work and sometimes read the threads and this one was quite entertaining.
Regarding the DADT repeal…initiated by a draft dodger and enacted by a illegitimate President, (fraudulent social security number and birth certificate), what are we coming to?
The fact is, homosexuals are unstable and the military is not a democracy.
unstable, i live a more stable life then many of my straight friends. People are stable, poepl are unstable in all walks of life.
but oh no its a FACT!! i GUESS I BETTER START DRINKING AND BEATING MY KID AND SLEEPING AROUND ON MY WIFE DON’T WANT TO BE A MYTH BUSTER
I just love it when people start beating you over the head with a bible and screaming “JESUS LOVES YOU!” For all of you invoking God to back your argument against the repeal, 1: This Nation wasn’t founded under God. 2: For an All Loving God to condemn someone to hell because they are attracted to the same sex……that doesn’t sound very loving to me. If you are a service member, you swore to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, that being said, Educate yourself on said Constitution, specifically the part about Freedom of Religion, (it’s under the same Amendment you’re invoking in order to verbally attack everyone who’s different from you), STFU and get back to attacking the real enemies of this fabulous Nation.
A God Fearing, Conservative, Pro-Rights Supporting, Constitutionalist Infantryman.
“Regarding the DADT repeal…initiated by a draft dodger and enacted by a illegitimate President, (fraudulent social security number and birth certificate), what are we coming to?”
^ Yeah, you sound REAL stable.
“The fact is, homosexuals are unstable and the military is not a democracy.”
^ The fact is, you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. And in a post-Google age, well, that’s just a GD crying shame.
“Why would I even expect more from someone of your caliber.”
^ Ma’am, you better just hope you don’t ever meet someone of my caliber.
Enemies foreign AND domestic, remember?
I’ll defend against both types.
But you have a right to your opinion.
If anyone wants to know more about lesbians in a purely educational sense: http://effingdykes.blogspot.com/
^ (NSFW maybe…just ’cause she talks about sex in some parts)
(but mostly not)
“It is too bad that tax monies taken from good upstanding moral individuals are being used to fund these gala gay military events.”
^ Is it bad that instantaneously question the morals of anyone who declares themselves “good upstanding moral individuals”? I must just be a cynical bastard at the ripe old age of 26.
People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Maverick, I want to have a beer with you!
It’s comforting to know there are people like you in our military and I’m happy that after next Tuesday you’ll no longer have to hide part of yourself. You’re knocking them out of the park but, as we all know, a lot of this ignorance and bigotry will only be cured by embalming fluid! The younger generation is way ahead of us on this and many other issues. I’m glad this dinosaur thinking is almost extinct! Semper Fi!
I will say that women all over the world have turned me somewhat mysogynistic. I have no issues with feminine women. I do have a problem with masculine women. Reason for the misogyny is that most women are weak and pathetic. And the ones I meet in the Army are too promiscuous. Now, I’m not saying men aren’t, they’re dogs too. But I’m not interested about men so I don’t care what they do. But the women of my family give me hope for womankind as a whole. Its the only thing keeping me from fullblown misogyny. I think I’m more anti-feminist than anything. I just want them to stop emasculating men as a whole.
But as for men, I have no problem with them being tender or gentle, because these are still masculine traits when directed at offspring and women. When a man is gentle and tender with a man outside paternal or fraternal instinct it becomes anathema. I’m naturally repulsed by it. But don’t get me wrong, I just don’t agree with male homosexual acts. If someone is happy being gay by all means s/he is welcome to it.
We all have our bad eggs across all walks of life regardless of orientation, gender, color: Its them that cause us to object. Seriously, if all gay men were like Neil Patrick Harris, I would have no qualms about being around them unless PDA is involved. I don’t like seeing hetero PDA either before you jump on that. Unfortunately, its the “Bruno” gays I can’t stand being around.
I think if humanity as a whole dropped their superiority complex about everything, there wouldn’t be much fighting.
All in all, I will believe in equality when the following happens:
People are held to one standard without any being treated special because they are different.
Where a man/woman can strike each other and no one cries gender foul.
Where people actually have to earn respect not demand it because they are ‘different’.
And I want to be able to list Viking as my ethnicity without someone rolling their eyes at me or bitching.
“I think you just don’t like to see feminity expressed openly by another man, because it means all of the male mantras – stoic silence, invincibility, toughness, calm, etc… – are really unnecessary standards that men hold themselves to.” The fact that women hold it as unecessary shows how little of the male psyche they truly comprehend. Religion aside, we have instinctual roles. Men are the Predators. We have the natural aptitude for it. This has nothing to do with a woman’s role. This is the nature of man. In truth, men don’t need women beyond the desire to reproduce and to protect something. I envy gay men in this regard because they have found a true companion who is their complete equal.
As for the link, should have had a battle buddy. I have a friend who tried to tell me I don’t have street smarts and if I walked down his streets I’d get murdered, because I’m white and don’t know the streets. I told him I do have street smarts. Those streets you walk down that you need to have street smarts for? I don’t walk down those streets. Its just like women and rape cases. Its not just gay hate. And yes, if their is crime, regardless of who the victim is, justice needs to be done. I’m a pretty white boy, I know for fact there are men out there who consider themselves straight who if I walked down the wrong alley would attempt to rape me. I’m conscious of this and act accordingly.
This is natural selection at its finest. We all have to die sometime, and yes death saddens us no matter who it is. Nobody ‘deserves’ to live. You have to earn that right. When I die, I know I deserved it.
I understand your points, Maverick, but I don’t think you understand mine. I don’t care about the DADT repeal. We have bigger problems. The whole of American society is weaker now than it has ever been before for whatever reason. We’re making the future generations soft. We are not preparing them for life.
We are the successors to the Roman Empire, and like Rome, I forsee the day we will burn as Nero fiddles.
But I can see why Marines are upset. The Cover does present the possible interpration of discrediting the Marine Corps’ public image. Because no matter how progressive we as a society are, homosexuality is still considered a negative thing. And the Cover can insinuate that the USMC is gay. The same way many Americans would react if we replaced the word God with Allah.
Oh… and as far as the Faith comments by others: Extra 2 cents…
Judge not lest ye be judged.
Let ye who are without sin cast the first stone.
All sins are equal.
“upstanding moral individuals” is a relative term, because it’s based on one’s own principles of what is right and what is wrong.
“I do have a problem with masculine women.”
^ So, as a masculine woman, I gotta ask – what is it?
“Reason for the misogyny is that most women are weak and pathetic. And the ones I meet in the Army are too promiscuous.”
^ If you think most women are weak and pathetic, you haven’t hung out with enough dykes. (Or women in general.) Just my opinion.
I find a lot of the guys on this thread who are asshurt over the repeal to be pretty weak and pathetic, honestly. It kind of hurts me that some of them are even associated with the military at all.
“But as for men, I have no problem with them being tender or gentle, because these are still masculine traits when directed at offspring and women. When a man is gentle and tender with a man outside paternal or fraternal instinct it becomes anathema.”
^ I don’t understand why tenderness and gentility aren’t positive traits no matter *who* they’re directed at.
“This is natural selection at its finest. We all have to die sometime, and yes death saddens us no matter who it is. Nobody ‘deserves’ to live. You have to earn that right. When I die, I know I deserved it.”
^ I’m sorry, queer bashing is not equivalent to natural selection.
Everyone deserves to live in freedom and peace. If not, what is the point of a nation in the first damned place? May as well be everyone for themselves.
But I believe in civility and that as f*cked up as the United States can be sometimes, it’s still the beacon of the free world. If I didn’t believe that, I wouldn’t do what I do.
“In truth, men don’t need women beyond the desire to reproduce.”
^ Funny, feminists say the same thing about you guys. *lolz* I believe in post-gender society though. I think all this pink versus blue nonsense is just the epitome of divisive, petty bullshit.
There’s not as much difference between women and men as you’d like to think.
You’d have to be a complete and utter idiot if you honestly believe that this cover and headline would lead anyone, except other complete and utter idiots, to believe that the entire Marine Corps is gay. Get over your homophobia and get with the program already because those of us who aren’t complete idiots and bigots aren’t going to wait around for you to drag your head out of your ass and finally understand that it’s not a big fucking deal and that everyone deserves equal rights.
Some people are gay. Some gays serve in the military. So the fuck what?
“From Marwar to Cochabamba
we are the warriors that won’t get conquered
‘Cause rising tides drown all villages
Divided fighters succumb to pillage
Rescuers whatever your latitude
it’s time to pioneer a new world attitude.”
“And I want to be able to list Viking as my ethnicity without someone rolling their eyes at me or bitching.”
^ So you want special privileges, but you don’t want anyone else to be able to ask for them?
What’s up with that man?
I want to be able to walk down the street with my girlfriend, holding her hand, without having anyone roll their eyes or bitch and moan about how I’m corrupting their “upstanding moral citizens” with my unobtrusive monogamy.
I think we’re pretty close to the same side of the argument.
Just in case anyone get’s the wrong idea, I don’t consider equal civil rights a “special privilege”. Just one of the many perks of living in a secular Western country.
What makes you think you are a masculine woman? There are non-dykes who are tough yet still womanly. I know many dykes who consider themselves masculine who in my eyes are still quite feminine. Penis envy aside. An exgf of mine went openly gay after she divorced her husband, I know plenty of dykes and there are a few strong women but most are weak. (keep in mind, not necessarily physical).
Like I said, humainty as a whole is weak.
Most of my issues are just an instinctual dislike. It really has no rational basis that I am aware of hence why I am nonjudgemental of the persons themselves. I also have an irrational hatred of fat people.
“^ I don’t understand why tenderness and gentility aren’t positive traits no matter *who* they’re directed at.”
Context is everything. Just as it is okay to kill someone in certain context, just as in some context good intentions may do more harm.
“^ I’m sorry, queer bashing is not equivalent to natural selection. ”
Of course it is. Your personal bias is naturally against it. Motive is irrelevant. Those fit to survive will live, those unfit will die. This is the law of the jungle. Civilization is an artificial construct and an abomination in the eyes of nature. But Civilization ie nations were built to keep out the Jungle to protect the weak. Life is not just. Life is not fair. Nor is life unfair. It just is.
Reverse the situation. Say a whole bunch of fags went breeder bashing, it would still be natural selection. Life is a struggle and life is pain. Anyone who says otherwise is selling you something.
But Maverick, let me say this as honestly as I can and in complete seriousness. I’m glad of your service. Because service to the Ideals represented by our Flag is every Americans Civic Duty, regardless of differences, and you rose to the call.
Everyone who wears a uniform doesn’t represent a Faith, an Ethnicity, a Gender, or an Orientation. You represent the American Flag and everything it is a symbol for. Its not a rainbow. Its not an elephant. Its not a jackass. Its not a white hood. Its the symbol of Freedom.
But nobody deserves that freedom. No one is entitled to it. It must be earned. And the American people as a whole have forgotten this. We fight for it on behalf of the enire Nation. We earned it as a Nation. DADT repeal isn’t a victory. Its a step towards doing what is right in a land divided by beliefs.
As a relative of mine said towards the end of the war. Now is not the time to celebrate, it is the time to heal. (paraphrased)
“What makes you think you are a masculine woman?”
^ Believe me, if you have a problem with butch women, you’d be offended if you saw me come walking down the street. You’d “instinctively dislike” me if what you say about your issues with misogyny and “women emasculating men” are true.
And penis envy has nothing to do with it. Perfectly capable of attracting women without one, don’t mind not having to walk around with something soft and vulnerable hanging between my legs, and some women actually like a sexual partner who can espouse all the positive aspects of masculinity with none of the negative ones.
” . . . a butch is someone who has taken on the best gendered characteristics of both woman and man, left a lot of the stuff born of misogyny and heterosexism behind, and walked forward into the world without apology.” – S. Bear Bergman
If it wasn’t for the hourglass figure hidden in my cargo jeans and the curvature of my face beneath my military cap, you’d probably mistake me for a young man on the street. So yeah, that’s how I define myself as a masculine woman. I’m a gender non-conformist and that’s just who I am. I’ve never been a “feminine woman” and never will be, though I don’t see anything wrong with women who are and find it pretty attractive.
I still disagree with you that women are weak, but I mean, with you being a semi-misogynist and me being a semi-feminist, we could go round and round with that bull if we wanted to.
“But nobody deserves that freedom. No one is entitled to it. It must be earned.”
^ I think queers have proven that we’re more than happy to go to bat for our freedom as American citizens, if that’s what it takes.
I’m just sad that we have to fight tooth and nail to enforce the concept of freedom in a country where it is commonly accepted as the highest ideal.
lol, I’m not saying men aren’t weak either. And you can be strong without being masculine. Being masculine is both about the pros and cons of being a man. And as a woman, if you don’t express the penis envy, then you aren’t a ‘masculine’ woman. Which is good if you consider yourself a gender non conformist. However, there is nothing unfeminine about lesbianism. But then again I suppose we would have to agree on what each word meant.
By penis envy, I mean the lesbians who equate having a toy being their literal penis. Its the woman who want to be men and the men who want to be women that I instinctively reject. Its the people who just want to be themselves that I accept. But everyone is a case-by-case basis.
You’re still microcosm to my macrocosm. Who cares about queers or straights? Think of equality for all people. People are drawn to extreme points of view, find the moderate view. Drop the pro-gay rights venue and just support equality regardless of views.
For example, in Texas I believe it was chick-fillet that catered out to an antigay conference. Because the business did business with these hate-filled people, they were banned from doing business at a pro-gay college. They basically justified it by saying they shouldn’t have served food to the antigays, saying it was okay to discriminate against antigays.
Then the deal with the woman who cut off her husband’s penis and put it in the garbage disposal. Women all over were acting joyful and making jokes about it. Some even said he probably deserved it. Do you think they would have been the same way if a man did something similar to a woman? Sure it happens in other countries but this is America.
Regardless of our personal views we live in a country where we declared everyone has freedom to say anything. So they should be free to hate. If they want to voice hate against gays, let them. They want to voice hate against straights, let them. Hate against blacks, whites, men, women, let them. Treat them unfairly? Hell no. When Justice is done, nod your head in approval and move on. When Justice is thwarted rise up and display outrage.
You sound like a decent woman so personality alone would make up for any misgivings I would have.
“And as a woman, if you don’t express the penis envy, then you aren’t a ‘masculine’ woman.”
^ So what facets of humanity do you consider masculine, and which of them do you consider feminine, if the most positive aspects of humanity (strength, fortitude, etc..) are considered unisex?
I consider myself masculine because I have always just identified more with what people consider to be masculine traits and mannerisms. Believe me, I was getting called a baby dyke before I even knew what the word meant. These are not conscious behaviors that people “put on” in order to act out some sort of gender-based societal role. Lots of women are born to shop, accessorize, nuture, explore their feelings, all that beautiful femmy stuff I just love about ’em. Femininity is one of the main things that attracts me to females in the first place.
But I wasn’t born that way. Growing up I always self-identified with the men and the boys and the things that men and boys do. When other girls were playing with Barbies, all I wanted was a G. I. Joe. These aren’t conditioned responses, they’re just terms of self identity.
“Think of equality for all people. People are drawn to extreme points of view, find the moderate view. Drop the pro-gay rights venue and just support equality regardless of views.”
^ I was actually a civil rights activist years before I ever got involved in gay rights, and I hold very moderate views politically. I actually don’t even consider myself involved in gay rights other than supporting the rights of gays to do the following:
– Cohabitate peacefully and raise children with the same rights as heterosexual couples.
– Serve in their country’s military without having to lie.
– Be able to walk down the street (or hang out in their own clubs) without having to worry about being beaten or murdered by a bigot and having society’s response be, “Meh. Fucking faggot had it coming.”
“For example, in Texas I believe it was chick-fillet that catered out to an antigay conference. Because the business did business with these hate-filled people, they were banned from doing business at a pro-gay college.”
^ I don’t agree with this; however, you have to keep in mind that Chick Fil A didn’t just cater to an anti-gay conference, Chick Fil A has actually donated a LOT of money to anti-gay causes. So it’s not just a “eye for an eye” sort of deal. It’s a boycott over the company choosing a side when corporations – if they know what’s good for them – should stay neutral in political affairs.
If they want to choose against the gays, they can’t very well bitch when the the gays say “Fine, we’ll get our chicken sandwiches at Wendy’s.”
Chick Fil A’s charitable division has provided more than $1.1 million to organizations that deliver anti-LGBT messages and promote egregious practices like reparative therapy that seek to “free” people of being gay.
“Then the deal with the woman who cut off her husband’s penis and put it in the garbage disposal. Women all over were acting joyful and making jokes about it.”
^ This is craziness. If love is love regardless of gender, then violence is violence regardless of gender as well. I don’t find it acceptable at all. I don’t even like that Carrie Underwood song about her vandalizing her boyfriend’s car for cheating. Society would NEVER put up with a similar song from a man about tearing up his girlfriend’s car. *Never*.
“You sound like a decent woman so personality alone would make up for any misgivings I would have.”
^ Gotta say, the sentiment is mutual, and I really appreciate you discussing the issue in a friendly manner with me. =)
I am going to cancel my subscription to the Marine Corps times, as it clearly does not represent the Marines that serve anymore. The entire Marine Corps is not gay, as this would insinuate. This front page is so “in your face” about it, since when did sexual preference, specifically gay preferences, become such a big deal? I don’t care, give me news on the two wars we are in and the troops that are dying that aren’t even getting this much attention.
*political affairs = culture war.
Obviously corporations are going to get involved when it comes to their own self-interest in business.
But choosing sides against the queers is stupid, because say the generally-accepted statistic is right and we are roughly 10% of the population.
You’re gonna basically “tithe away” 10% of your business just to make a point of discriminating against people?
Bad business man.
Industries that have embraced the gay rights movement are finding themselves sitting like pretty kitties right now, because queers generally have a *lot* of disposable income, and apparently a lot of us like to buy stuff too.
So from an economic standpoint, it’s kind of stupid to say, “No, we don’t want all of the money you’ve socked away from NOT raising 2.5 kids, go spend it on a Jamaican vacation why don’t you?”
“I am going to cancel my subscription to the Marine Corps times, as it clearly does not represent the Marines that serve anymore. The entire Marine Corps is not gay, as this would insinuate.”
^ You’re right, that’s totally what they’re saying. If there are gay Marines, that must mean all Marines are gay. Perfectly sound logic.
Here’s some background on the Chick Fil A issue: http://equalitymatters.org/blog/201103220005
For what it’s worth, I still eat there. Heh.
I’ve enjoyed reading tankmans comments, a different view from mine, but made in a “respectable this is what i believe manner” and i respect his view and his right to express it.
Americans should be able to disagree without the conversation devolving into “my ideology can kick your ideology’s ass” sort of convolutions.
It’s just hard to converse respectfully from people who have you pegged as a “perverse degenerate” right out of the gate, without even taking two seconds to get to know you as a human being first.
well in that respect his comment of “equality for all people.” is in the end what will get this human race of ours where it should be
Gay rights are human rights.