By now, many of you have no doubt seen the video of apparent Marines peeing on dead Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan. It exploded on the Internet yesterday, and is the subject of international news coverage today.
My colleague, James K. Sanborn, is ably covering this story for Marine Corps Times. Given the focus of this blog, though, it seemed appropriate for me to weigh in here, too.
First, it’s worth noting that this appears to be an isolated incident.
The vast majority of U.S. service members do not behave this way in combat, including infantrymen I have embedded with in violent sections of Afghanistan. Obviously, there’s a natural tension, frustration and anger that goes with dealing with suicide bombs, improvised explosive devices and small-arms ambushes, but the behavior depicted in the video is not common or condoned.
Some questions do need to be answered, though. Among them:
What is the context in which this video was recorded?
The YouTube page contended that these are Marines from a scout sniper team with 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marines, out of Camp Lejeune, N.C. CNN has subsequently confirmed that they’re with 3/2, as well. The battalion spent most of 2011 deployed in northern Helmand province, Afghanistan, and lost six Marines and a sailor in combat during the deployment.
What had these men seen? What had they experienced? Maj. Gen. John Toolan, the Marine commander in southwestern Afghanistan, told me in the fall that some 3/2 scout snipers had potentially killed more than 100 insurgents each. There’s nothing definitive saying there’s a tie there, but it goes without saying that 3/2’s snipers had a dangerous, complicated mission. It doesn’t excuse the behavior, but it might explain why these Marines got carried away.
Who posted it online, and why now?
As Marine Corps Times reported yesterday, this video first surfaced on YouTube on Tuesday. It was posted by someone using an account called “semperfiLoneVoice” — quite possibly another Marine, based on the Marine Corps flavor to the name.
“I thought Marines were suppose [sic]to do the right thing when no one is watching,” semperfiLoneVoice said in a comment posted with the video.
There’s nothing saying that the individual behind the YouTube account was with the unit, though — or even a Marine. The battalion returned from combat months ago. Combat videos, including graphic footage, are shared online through e-mail and other sources, and the video could have moved beyond 3/2’s Marines pretty easily.
Was semperfiLoneVoice a disgruntled fellow member of 3/2? If so, did he try taking the video to his commander first? Or was the account user simply someone who received a copy of the video and was angry about what he saw? The YouTube account already has been closed, but the damage is done.
Who are the dead men in the video?
When a Taliban insurgent dies in combat, he is commonly carried away by those fighting alongside him. Marines and soldiers say they have a hard time determining what the body count on a firefight is for this reason.
These insurgents certainly appear to be dead, though — and no one had carried them away before the Marines reached them. Again considering that the Marines in the video may have been a scout sniper team, it seems possible that the dead were targeted at distance, and not in a run-of-the-mill firefight. We don’t have details on it one way or the other, though.
What else did these Marines do?
It goes without saying that gallows humor in combat — including inappropriate jokes about bodily functions, mothers and Afghans — is as common as bad food, bad weather and bad sleeping conditions. It helps to make life a little less scary in a life-and-death situation, and to fill in time when things are boring.
There’s a big jump between popping off at the mouth and desecrating a body, though — especially when a buddy is recording it on video for posterity’s sake.
In light of Commandant Gen. Jim Amos’ promise today to investigate the incident fully, it would stand to reason that these Marines will be put on the hot seat. If they performed this kind of action more frequently, this entire scandal could get more ugly.
What will the U.S. military do to reinforce the downsides of acting this way?
In March 2008, a video surfaced of a Marine throwing a puppy off a cliff in Iraq. It sparked widespread outrage, including among active-duty Marines. Nearly everyone likes a cute puppy, after all.
In this case, the “puppy” is a dead insurgent — and he probably wasn’t so innocent. Consequently, many readers already have downplayed the significance of the event, even if it becomes a Taliban recruiting tool, reflects poorly on the Corps as a whole or harms the war effort in Afghanistan.
Already today, military leadership has responded swiftly to make it clear they won’t tolerate it. Amos said the service “will not rest until the allegations and the events surrounding them have been resolved.” Defense Secretary Leon Panetta called the actions depicted “utterly deplorable,” while stressing that the origins and authenticity of the video was not yet confirmed.
That’s very unambiguous, but the message clearly hasn’t reached those defending these Marines — even though very few service members would even dream of recording a video like this.
A question for the future: How does the U.S. military reinforce to rank-and-file troops that just because insurgents don’t fight fair doesn’t mean our country’s ethics can be thrown out the window in combat?
I feel that regardless of any situation there needs to be a line when it comes to dealing with living enemy or dead enemy. Either way they should get the same respect in death as they would get in life. It is obvious these young Marines stepped over that line, violating the Core Values we all preach and live by. I pray these Marine understand their mistake and accept responsibility for it. Because that’s what Marines do.
Now I know you can ask better questions than that. sounds like your tip toeing around the real hard questions that need to be ask.
Enlighten us, Carol.
What about what the Taliban have done to OUR Troops? And to their own people? I won’t judge a combat veteran as I’ve never been in their boots!
The response from marines shows me that hell will be full of them
They will burn with the Taliban
People make mistakes, Charles. Your response would qualify.
You know what? The hell with these damn Taliban heathens. They don’t deserve the piss that’s being spilled on ’em.
Let the Marines send em to straight to hell…and piss on ’em too.
We don’t give a damn about some moron kid crapping on a police squad car in Occupy NY, but we’re worried about guys pissing on some dead numbnuts who’d just as soon cut our guys’ heads off?
The lesson here is not “don’t do it”. The lesson is “don’t take pictures of it”. Kinda like sex with your girlfriend.
I think those marines deserve medals. Remember Falujah a couple of years ago if you want to think about mutilation! Why don’t the marine generals and our gov’t. back our boys up instead of turning on them? We sit here in comfort at home and they are living in the armpit of the world, fighting savages who would do worse to every one of us if they had the chance. Argh!!!!!
That’s what PTSD can do to you. These Marines have probably had many of their fellow MARINES parish on the field of battle. The hatred they must have after all this ordeal must be great. America sends their men to fight abroad in a deadly war zone, and this act is deemed relatively unworthy? The Corps does not condone this behavior, but these Marines are fighting in a war zone. You can kill the insurgents lawfully, but pissing on one is against the law? I hope this puts fear in the hearts of the Taliban. The Taliban practices suicide bombings, and cuts the throats of Americans and places footage of it on youtube…I just hope these Marines get do not loose their career over this. And if they do…well that just means that they no longer have to put their lives on the line, and they can come back to the states and live without fear of driving over an IED.
SSGT A, you are right. Many of those poor guys have had so many tours to those Crapistans over there that of course they will be affected. But I still think the marines are the best we have and I am proud of them. And I fear that this administration will throw them right under the bus.
“Charles”, you are a poor excuse for an American!
The conduct of the 4 individuals can not and should not be excused. It is basically barbaric. But the bigger issue is the fact that after over 10 years of sacrifice, and given the sensitivities of the people we are there to ‘help?’, these 4 people have essentially spit in the face of all of the service members who have died, have been wounded, or risked their lives. Through their stupidity, they put the entire 10 year mission at risk of total failure and wasted the lives of their comrades in arms. Horrendous!!!!
SF-so are the 4 Marines who bring disgrace to the CORPS.!!
Perhaps if the Marine Corps paid more attention to the mental health of their Marines. Instead of treating it like something to check off on a mental health screening questionnaire. They might eliminate some of these problems.
I am not saying what those Marines did was right. I would fry them. But, I understand.
The fact that people think this is astonishing shows how the american public is oblivious to the day to day struggles troops face. No one can deny that this wasnt a good idea but how many people have done things in the heat of the moment and then realized later maybe they could have acted diffarent. As far as the politicians and brass worrying of the possble retaliation that may come from this should be a example to Americans that maybe we should be more motivated to defend and avenge those who commit acts against our countrymen who are fighting for our freedom. Everyday taliban and other radicals commit offenses much more horrifying and no one knows or want to. We have to stand by our own at the end of the day and that just means to look at the entire situation and possible events surrounding it. Punishment is warrranted but not to the extent of the law. These Marines risk their lives everyday for the country that looks for every excuse to crucify them when they arent ” in the right”. There actions and efforts and sacrafice is something no human being should be subject to and they do it without hesitating. The fact is everyone faulters but to turn our backs on our countries biggest heroes when they need us is a act of inhumanity that we cant let happen. I want to stress I dont agree with what took place but I do acknowledge there is more to things than meets the eye and maybe those involved will be grateful for the oppurtunity to make things right and learn from their mistakes. As a former Marine with 3/2 I have to say that battalion has some of the finest human beings I have ever known or served with and they need not be portrayed as a shame to the Corps or country. All men make mistakes and when our time on this earth comes to an end we should be remebered for who we were at that time not what we did in a moment that we arent proud of. We have to standby our troops. Even if that means accepting and understanding not condoning their mistakes. Dont let them down when they call on their countrymen for support. The individuals involved need our understanding not our outrage to really and truly make restitution for their actions. Semper Fidelis is Always Faithful and now included in always.
Kudos to the author for giving shape to a very complex issue. I think your final question: “How does the U.S. military reinforce to rank-and-file troops that just because insurgents don’t fight fair doesn’t mean our country’s ethics can be thrown out the window in combat?” captures the problem at its core. Looking at the variety of your readers’ comments shows just how difficult this is to answer.
I’m interested in getting your thoughts on the impact of this and the safety of our Marines currently serving in Afghanistan. (We have a young Marine stationed in Helmand right now on his first deployment. He isn’t scheduled to return until July. We’ve of course been concerned from the beginning; now even moreso.) Do you see that as a major concern, is it a media storm or something inbetween?
i’ve read some of the comments above…most of them where shocking to me. there is in my view not a thing wrong here.if that’s all they do to those towelheads that’s fine.the people over there that we are killing ,for good reason treat their own people with less respect .my god if your a christian your as good as dead in most muslim states or kindoms. and they get bent out of shape over a little piss ? f…them and every one else.with these rules of engagement they have,
i not surprised every squad doesn’t have a stinking lawyer with them. god bless all our troops.
I just as mixed about this yes its bad type of judgement and behavior but to send all of the Marines to Leavenworth or hang them to please the scumbags of the Taliban and even bigger screwball of Afghan President Kharzi is PC crap too. these marines may have most friends and comrades to these terrorist and wanted revenge after there deaths. Fact is the government is bending over back wards to please Muslim terrorist over the past decade. To the point where the safety of US service men are at stake for good PC with religious extremist who want to kill us peeing on them or no peeing on them anyway.
Let them go I have no repeat NO respect for living or dead Islamic Nazis.
Let’s just be real here men. No one cares what they did. The only REAL issue is that they video taped themselves doing it. This issue should be addressed….
This is why the public needs to stay out of the war. You sit back in your safe homes and squawk when you see a pic of some Marines pissing on some dead insurgents? Did you not read that many of these snipers in this unit have killed close to a hundred people each? Do you know what that does to a mans head? Then we bring them home and tell them they have to act civilized after having them do this tour after tour? Until you have had to live through what these young Marines have lived through, you have no grounds, let alone the rights, to judge them! Instead you should be thankful these men are man enough to go over there and do what they have to do! Because one thing is for sure, these men will live this war the rest of their lives, long after you civilians have forgotten about it! So try thanking them for doing what you didn’t or couldn’t do!
I could not have said that better. However it was the result of listening to their Doc and they drank lots of water.
Charles, since when are you the judge? or is your real name Jesus Christ? I have two Marines (infantry) that have both done multiple tours both to Iraq and Afghanistan. You have probably never served in our military. These boys have seen so much in their young lives I don’t care who they piss on. I have no sympathy, sorry Hillary and all the rest of you whimps that is running this country. OOH RAA!
The majority reaction to this has rightly been of bewilderment and outrage. I am appalled at just how out of touch those defending these Marines are to the complexity of the problem in Afghanistan and this video’s deleterious effects on US and NATO efforts.
1. Sympathizing with war trauma’s effects on a soldier’s psyche is one thing, but defending any resulting offensive actions is much different. People are rightly bringing up the fact that combat, especially losing your comrades in war is traumatizing. However our servicemen are not just fighting a war in physical terms, they are fighting a psychological and PR war. Actions such as these are the equivalent of ceding to the enemy; these Marines have just given the Taliban a huge weapon to use against us.
2. Respect for the dead is enshrined in virtually every culture, even for the enemy. By proudly urinating several corpses, these Marines have violated a basic tenement of most societies. It is understood that once a person is dead, a certain level of respect is given to the body. Indeed in most countries desecrating the dead is a crime, separate from many religious norms. These norms are not simply thrown away because you are in another country. You live up to YOUR values; you do not use your enemy’s depravity to defend your stupidity.
3. There is a private versus public dynamic at play that people have alluded to, but which cannot be crossed. You can easily find anger and hatred of the Taliban in Afghanistan. Indeed you can probably find many Afghans who would spit on and urinate on the Taliban; however you are unlikely to find that they would think it wise to publicly do so, even to those they hate. Private feelings should remain private, and not be publicly aired for good reason.
4. The war in Afghanistan isn’t just fought with guns and tanks, it is just as dependent on public perception. There is a native versus foreigner bias inherent in every war, and although the Afghan population may have suffered terribly under Taliban rule, they are more highly suspicious of what foreigners do in their country. When they see actions such as these, it strikes this suspicious chord, inflames tensions, makes them much more susceptible to Taliban propaganda, much less tolerant of US and NATO excesses, and much more resentful and uncooperative.
5. The appearance of this video comes at a highly sensitive time, and will make things all the more difficult for our government and troops. The reality is that we cannot be in Afghanistan forever, and that we may have to broker some sort of agreement with the Taliban. Indeed our government is in the process of attempting to open talks with the Taliban, and because it will fuel native resentment and outrage, it weakens our position in any future bargaining and puts us on the defensive.
6. It must be understood that the Taliban and others like them will exist so long as people are willing to join their cause, which isn’t just built on a vision of an ultra-religious society, but is also on resentment and anger. Something like this seriously endangers the safety of our troops because it automatically serves as a powerful and emotional tool for recruitment against us. These Marines have ensured that many more people will take up arms to attack OTHER servicemen.
7. These Marines represent our country and our armed forces. The reality is that it is always easier to destroy respect than to create and maintain it. These Marines have undone much of the sacrifices other servicemen have done. Thousands have died trying to help this country, and their legacy is at stake. The proper arena to consider this isn’t the US, but Afghanistan itself and the rest of the world because that is where our troops are fighting. It is always the case that one act of stupidity can undo thousands of acts of sacrifice.
8. This video is just one more indication that internet and new technology is making people much more stupid, and these Marines are yet another example. We live in a society where idiots flaunt their stupidity online, on Youtube, Facebook, internet postings and what not, without thinking of the consequences. Did it ever occur to these men that there would be enormous repercussions to their actions, not simply of urinating on the dead, but of RECORDING it and SHARING it? Did they ever think at least one step ahead? A fundamental aspect of intelligence is the ability to imagine consequences, and how actions can be alternatively viewed. These guys totally failed in this regard, and they are further proof that common sense is not really common at all.
Jeff39 you can go to hell with charles. You don’t have the guts to fight for our country, then you disgrace the people that do get out. You are not good enough to be an American. These men fight for our country if they come home alive, the are likely to be missing limbs if they are lucky enough to come home with all of them, they will most likely have mental issues. The only reason these Taliban were dead is because at one point or another they tried to kill an American. So untill you can stand up and fight for your right to freedom speech you better watch what you say
I agree with many points being put forth on this blog, however, many of the posters have not walked in a Marine’s combat boots and really have idea what it can do to a person’s thought processes. I have not either, but I have sat with my sons and heard their pain, so I have some idea. I can’t imagine what I would want to do to someone who may have killed or maimed someone close to me. I’ll tell you right now, it probably wouldn’t have stopped at urinating. My concern as a mother, is that four young men may have thrown away their future because of one stupid, vile act. After all they’ve sacrificed and given for the rest of us, it makes me sick in the pit of my stomach to think of them sitting in prison for it. I for one, am praying for mercy.
I have an opinion about this incident that I’ll keep to myself.
However, I will say that its a shame another news item from two weeks ago didn’t get the same attention from US politicians, US military leaders and the rest of the world:
Marines save Afghans in daring canal rescue:
I agree with you, iosonojo. Marine Corps Times covered both, but few other news outlets reported the story about the rescue.
We as Marines have a different way of dealing with our inner demons, As a falluja veteran I can understand why these marines saw nothing wrong with what they were doing. I do not condone it but I understand. We ask 18-19 year olds to go fight and kill in a far off land, for months on end, several times in their four year enlistment, and when they come back we push them to the side and forget about them. You have no problem speaking against what you think you know when the media shows something bad the Marines did, but where are you when the Military is not getting a pay raise or tge proper care for returning vets?? You feel sorry for a little piss on these taliban terrorist, but you forget that they flew two big ass planes into the towers killing thousands of Americans! Ask yourself this, when was the last time you did anything for a servicemember? (if it applies to you) Let us not forget that undrr all that combat gear and rough unshaven faces, these are still kids, college kids the same age do the same shit, and you can sit there and argue that we as Marines are supposed to have better trainin sure, but if our president gets a blow job from an intern, our senators sell their political seats, and most of our government rather see our country in fanancial troubles than take a pay cut, then why do we expect more from thesr kids??
As an active duty Marine with over 10 years in, I must say that the actions of a few in this case have direct impact on the world. This situation reminds me of the case over a year ago where the preacher from Florida said he was going to burn the Koran, and a UN compound was stormed in Kabul and innocent lives were taken because of the outrage that triggered there. I can easily see the actions of these Marines placing the lives of countless other Americans at risk who are working in locations around the world. We will just have to wait and see if more innocent people in the aftermath of extremist outrage.
There is no way such conduct can be condoned. That being said and agreed upon, a very wide angle view should be taken in evaluating the scene. One did it happen at all. (Remember the puppy) Next, this article makes the point of these Marines having seen friends, fellow Marines, and a Sailor killed but does not say how many times they saw or experienced it. Then to be considered is the fact that, thanks to these men; hundreds of terrorists no longer threaten us. Lastly, these Marines are our Marines. If the allegations are true, they made a foolish mistake. Their efforts and accomplishments made us safer; they have endured the unimaginable to do the unthinkable to make us safer. If it is true, slap them on the wrist, thank them for their service and move on. “We sleep safely in our beds at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who would do us harm.” – Winston Churchill
In my humble opinion, this is no difference than the Army LtCol from the 4th ID stated on a documentary aired on the Military Channel last year he purposely urinated on the graves of the sons of Sadam Hussein after they were killed, it never went public and probably nothing happened to him.
Why do we ALWAYS have to walk on eggs for the religion of peace? They behead christians, burn bibles, burn our flags, kill our soldiers, stone women to death for unproven moral crimes, and no one says anything. Our guys eliminate some really bad guys and in the heat of the moment pee on them, and the whole world explodes. Where are Ronald Reagan and Gen. Patton when we need them…
Being a Viet Nam Marine and a 100 % disabled Veteran I don’t have a problem with the actions of these fine Marines. They did not cut off their ears and wear them around their necks. So they pissed on them. I wish they had not done that, but I fully understand why they did it. Do not judge them for this silly act they did after a hard days work. If you have not been there keep your mouth shut. Semper Fi
I know it wasnt very nice of these fine Marines to waste their urine on these pieces of S__T, but come on why did it ever get caught on camera or posted to the internet. These poor guys are asked to do things most American wouldn’t even want to hear about and now we are going to condemn them. I say get them some therapy and move on. War is ugly and unless you have been there, in their situation then you need to keep your mouth shut!. OOOHRAHH and Semper Fi, may the Corps go easy on you young Heroes!
It is a sad day when urinating on the corpse of an American-killing
enemy is front-page news,
but the latest IED amputations is not newsworthy!
To Voice of reason who wrote:
“It is a sad day when urinating on the corpse of an American-killing enemy is front-page news,
but the latest IED amputations is not newsworthy!”
I was thinking that too. I don’t understand how American deaths in Afghanistan are somehow no longer newsworthy. Earlier this month four members of the Indiana national guard were killed in an IED explosion in Afghanistan and for some inexplicable that did not warrant mention in the national news. I intentionally LOOKED for it via traditional news websites and could not find a story about it anywhere; only news outlets in Indiana seemed to cover it.
Patricia, when George Bush was in office, troop casualties were headline news. Not now. Either the press feels it is politically incorrect to correctly state the casualty rate, as it implies that our president is a “war monger”, or they feel it isn’t important. I feel the truth is the truth. Less than 1% of our population does the job of defending this nation–the rest are disconnected from the reality of war.
I have a nephew in the USMC who has done one tour in Iraq and one in Afganistan and has suffered 2 closed head injuries.
Here is the the long and the short of it. The USMC turns our young people into killers, trains them to survive like animals, sends them to an environment where they live like animals and are totally surprised when something like this happens. The USMC needs to be looking in the mirror and figuring out which general needs to be blamed. I have heard first hand from my nephew what he has seen and had to do and he is scarred for life. These 4 young men should NOT be dishonorably discharged or court marshalled. This will negate all they have done for our country. Taking the side of the Taliban who slaughtered 4000 American Citizens on 911 should be a slap in the face for all Americans!!! USMC needs to take responsibility for what YOU have created and stop bowing down to the liberal cry babies!!!
What these young men did was stupid… videorecording. Other than that, what they did was little more than public urination. The Taliban have shown for a decade or more that “honor” in the Western Civilization context of that word has no meaning for them.
Only and idiot would think or say these marines should be punished…. The live this shit every day with out any let up.
So they pissed on some corpses….who cares. You ask thes men to be killers and to have a worrier mind set. you cannot turn that on and off like a switch. Larry, Carole and DAN should spend a little time in combat before they even think of commenting on this issue. oppions are like assholes every body has one and most are full of shit. you ask a kid 19 to 21 year old to kill and then want to hang him for pissing on a corps. Get Real.
Jeff39 why dont you join the Marine Corps and serve a few tours over there with your ass hanging in the breez and then lets talk about this issue. IF you havent beeb there keep your mouth shut and just enoy the freedom these men afford you.
I have seriously thought about going back in the service since I spent 4 years active duty in the Marines, and every time I see our troops being sent to a court martial for killing the enemy or in this case pissing on them I lose all interest. I respect all Veterans and their service and for them to be treated like scum and locked away after serving their country just makes me sick to my stomach!
It’s hillarious that’s it’s OK to slaugther people with Bullets, Explosives, Knives, and even hand to hand combat. But some snipers piss on some dirtbag and the world get’s all butthurt.
Try as you want to try to picture the Marine Corps as some Chivaldrious American Moral Knightly Organization, it’s not. The Marine Corps is there to do America’s Killing. I’m sure the POG’s and other butthurt lifers have these delusions of nobility but in the grunts it remains one thing. We’re here sent by a populace to extract revenge for 911. Now Joe Bidden says the Taliban isnt the enemy and everyone is looking at Pull Out dates but dont take a second to consider that were still here under the gun getting blown up and shot to crap.
“Walk a mile in my shoes.”
Unless you were there, you shall not judge.
What brave soldiers endure in combat on every level on their being is unimaginable unless you have walked that mile.
Reserve your judgement for when you look in the mirror and ask yourself what moments in your own life could have been more respectable.
We are all human and we all respond to the events we experience with emotion and a cognitive swirl of attempting to file each under an appropriate heading. There is no mental file folder for the horrors of war. Period.
Walk a mile. Walk a mile.
When you have witnessed your brothers-in-arms being killed, when you have had your very own brush with death, when you have endured deployment after deployment… In that single moment, when the dust has settled and you are the one left standing. Your emotions may or may not get the best of you. While certain actions may not be condoned and will certainly be frowned upon by many, they can be understood. In war, our emotions can be like the venom of a baby rattlesnake… they can be released uncontrollably but at some point we will be responsible for our actions. This may be done publicly or internally. We have all done something in our lives that we can now look back and say “what was I thinking?” War can bring out the worst in ANYONE. It has brought out the worst in me. Engage, reload and move on to the next target.
The author states that the “majority” of combat Marines don’t behave this way because he has embedded with them. I say don’t you realize when a reporter is around, we are not really doing what we “really” do? Also, you have obviously not been in too many combat situations to question why the bodys are still there. The fight is everywhere. Maybe they killed them at night, in a firefight, GBU, anything. The bodys aren’t always missing. One commented wrote something to the sound of every dead body should get the same respect as when they were alive… Uh, did you see that they are DEAD. Would you rather get peed on or shot dead?
the Taliban have done much much worse to us and their own people. Taping it was the only mistake these guys made. Charge them and move on.
I note with amusement that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta are magnitudes more outraged over this incident than they ever were over Commander-in-Chief Bill Clinton’s sexual trysts IN THE OVAL OFFICE, on COMPANY TIME over a period of 16 months, and later LYING about it.
… and don’t hand me the “everybody-does-it” defense of a President’s actions.
Moreover, General Patton urinated in the Rhine River to show his contempt for Nazi Germany. Winston Churchill was said to have done the same thing on the Siegfried Line.
Seems about right to me.
I dont agree with pissing on the dead or lowering are disapline standards down to there level every way you look at it this was wrong but look what those f###ers do to us on film and publish on there sites also what we need to be concerned about here the bigger issue… All the politicians are worried about with this is it will hurt talks with the taliban.. What ever happed to the usA will not negotiate with terrorists…did you know the taliban now has a office in kubal… Did you know the usa is considering releasing 5 top taliban leaders . Dependent on peace talks… With a terrorist organization… And were worried about charging marine heros with jail time but top taliban leaders who killed many of our countrymen can be released if you ask me there should be a few politicians in court facing jail time for allowing these negotiations.
Promote them all I say, job well done Marines. And if your duschbag officers and Commandant reprimand you for it than the hell with them. Your hard work and sacrifices are not worth pleasing those pogs who sit behind in the rear with the gear collecting Legions of Merits and Bronze stars not getting there hands dirty.This Air Winging Amos is something else!!! Lets get back to the days of the real Marine Corps, please let there be a infantry officer leading our corps when Amos is gone, the changes this guy is making to the corps is disgusting. If that was our Marines dead those freaking Tailban savages would be cutting there heads off and eating there guts (REMEMBER THAT)!!! Leave those Marines be. Great Job DEVIL DOGS!!!!!!
Retired 03 Vietnam vet here. In my war, the Viet Cong and NVA were routinely mutilating our dead while we had to play nice with our patriotic press reporters breathing down our necks looking for something/anything to bust us with. But a My Lai Massacre this is not. Let’s remember that in WWII, Marines routinely killed wounded Japanese soldiers to prevent them from shooting Marines in the back (after that happened a couple of times) – that was a worse violation of the Law of Warfare if you want to get technical, but nobody was in a hissy-fit about it then because the Marines were fighting a remorseless, fanatical, dirty-figting enemy (sound familiar?). This incident is a minor breach of discipline that went virile – a tempest in a teapot. Respecting the previous comments, I believe these Marines deserve understanding and consideration for all the mitigating factors that were influencing their minds up to the time they decided to take a whiz on the dead Taliban meat. To all the two-faced people (including politicians, of all people, and PC generals) expressing outraged moral condemnation on these Marines, I must wonder whose side they are really on. What these guys did, IMHO, was not morally wrong – just a violation of orders (the Law of Land Warfare) and a breech of discipline. What about the failure of leadership by their NCOs and officers in this case? If these four Marines go to courts-martial on account of their deed, what will become of their leaders? If they are convicted, everybody in their chain of command (to include CMC) should be relieved for failure of leadership. Sure, Marines are held to a higher standard (as expressed in the Core Values – something we didn’t need in my day to be Marines), but I must ask what we are trying to create here – Marines or boy scouts. In my opinion, these guys should get NJP (at worst) for disobedience of a lawful order (the aforementioned Law of Land Warfare) and for being dumb enough to do it on video and getting caught. Furthermore, the broke-dick that put the video on YouTube should have to spend 15 minutes in a locked room with these Marines. If it was a fellow Marine, shame on him for his disloyalty to his brothers.
I don’t think my brothers should get any kind of punishment, I’m a former 0311 ( grunt), no one knows what a grunt endures day by day and the mind set we are in! The Taliban do far worser things to people, but we don’t say anything! Let a couple of Marines piss on a piece of shit Taliban fighter and the whole world gets their panties in a bunch! Come the fuck on,we are warriors, I know we are the best of the best but this is war. Okay they lost focus but this is war, their no such thing as playing fair, they don’t so why should we!
based on the comments here it seems being a marine give you a free pass to do anything you want.
Something you wouldnt know anything about ZXC unless you were there in their boots I would shut the hell up coward!!!!!
For those who speak out against these Marines i say f*cc off, these guys go through things you would never even imagine, so what they wanna piss on some damn habibs, moments earlier they were probably shooting at them to save their own asses. They shouldnt have recorded it because doing that undoes years of peace talk not with the damn Taliban but Afghanistan, Pakistan and neighboring countries. we should be worried about pissing off some damn terrorist, but be more concerned about the actual leaders of the particular country we’re in, if theyre communist/fascist/dictators etc. SHOOT THEM IN THE FACE. And work on establishing a democratic government in that area
You guys have lost it! I mean pull it together. Just because the Talibans have done “harsh” things to us–does not give us the right to do the same to them.
We are supposed to be better. Not sit down with the low-lives. We are supposed to Stand Up!
I do not agree one bit with these four Marines. Seriously, how old are you? They are dead-move on.
If we keep doing this kind of stuff — it makes us look just as bad as they are. Our military doesnt realize that what they do reflects our ENTIRE country.
Its not ‘tit for a tat’ — We all want to hurt the people who hurt our loved ones- but in the end we are the same as them if we do.
We need to be better.
I think we have bigger problems at hand to worry about than some Marines pissing on some dead Taliban
It’s not morally correct to urinate on thier corpses, yet Hillary is wrong morally as well-Why are we worrying about them being offended when they perform Daily Atrocities on Our Civilians and Military personnel and Plan atrocities against our cities? I find this outrageous and insulting that we pay more attention to “Thier Opinions” than we do to thier Crimes against Humanity.
I have never served in any branch of the military, though I do come from a military family. That being neither here or there though. For the people who are condemning these Marines, you really need to look in the mirror and stop lying to yourself! You may want to appear “Holier than thou” but it is just appearance! If one of these Marines was your son, brother, father, or loved one you would be singing a different tune! You are ignorant and hypocritical! I guarantee if you were placed in certain situations (going into detail would be a waste of my time, nut you can use your imagination) you would react the same if not more severe! I know I personally would! If one of my children, sister, family memebers, or loved ones were molested or brutally tortured and murdered or even just murdered, abducted, brutalized, etc…. I wouldn’t just stop at pissing on them! I would be filled with so much rage and hatred torturing, killing, and desecrating wouldn’t even be good enough for me! That is human nature! Much less to be in the situations that our military men and women are in…. day in and day out of killing, fighting, watching your comrades being killed or mamed. Months without relief, months without your family, months without normal daily life. Constantly having to watch over your shoulder, watching over your brothers in arms, the whole while being persecuted by the very people you are doing all this for! Wondering if all you are doing and all the sacrifices you have made will be in vain. Worrying if you do make it back home, will you have a home, will you have a job, is your wife still at home waiting for you! Will you come out in one piece, or will you be in a wheelchair for the rest of your life depending on someone else to tend to your most basic necessities! As for the PR if our government is so worried about that…. they have lied about many things, cover ups for many other things, can they not do the same for this? Can they not release statements that “say” they have punished these Marines to protect their own ass without hurting the integrity and the lives of the four men who WILLINGLY put their lives on the line for our great Nation and the citizens therein?
I agree with some of the previous statements…. who gives a shit that they pissed on these dead assholes! There dead! They’ll be rotting soon anyway. Our government should he prosecuting the dumbass that released the video! Protect the ones that are protecting us….
Those of you who find it morally disgusting need to be over there in the shoes of these Marines…. I’m sure you would do things you wouldn’t normally do if you were at home enjoy the comforts of life and freedoms that men like these have given their lives for.
My daddy always told me that there is no such thing as fair in fight!
Well said Tracey, “Well Said”. Hey openonion you sound just like the rest of those brainwashed politician sheeps. By the way im 40 years old and served 6 years in the Marine Corps infantry in Somalia and Bosnia whatls your claim to fame internet jockey your beloved government has made this country look bad for years on end with their lies and scandals corruption I think the military making us look bad is not the problem here it’s narrow minded idiots like you that vote for the scum that runs this country there the ones that need to be prosecuted not these Marines I bet the only service you provided to this country was the girl scouts huh!!! Get a clue.
Just because were Americans doesn’t make us any better than anyone stop believing that myth, we are all human being and its in our nature to destroy each other, dont put yourself on a higher pedistal because your American.
I’m sure that they will be disciplined because the act doesn’t advertise family values…..but probably the most damaging evidence was the fact that it was recorded.
Four Marines…..they really didn’t put themselves in the place of others….but knowing that if the shoes were on the other feet….their country would have cheered with a special celebration….but the moral of the story is that they will not be awarded with any Merit Badges for Pissing……!
What about Osama Bin Laden…..would they have been given a party afterwards if the same act occurred?
Being prior military, I know there is much more acts that violate one’s personal respect.
Let’s hope the next incident can be free of videocams or someone shooting a movie clip with their cellphone….all it did was to create trouble…..I can’t say that I agree with the act but I can also imagine that many of the things that we went through as POW’s were much worse. I hope I don’t ruffle anyone’s feathers! Semper Fidelis!!!!
I applaude their actions. No problem with it at all. Taking a number 2 would have been better. Semper Fi!
Who the fuck really cares that some marines pissed on some dead talibans me personally i say take a shit on them and im sure others would say that to but why is it such a big deal after all the pictures and videos of our soldiers being tourtured and decapitaded i dont think this was wrong at all and anyone bashing those marines or any marines can go back to there desk job and fuck them self they dont know what our military force does over there or anywhere they just hear whats on tv and its bullshit that anyone should be saying this is wrong i personally say those talibans deserve it. Semper Fi
There’s a video on liveleak.com that i saw last year of Taliban in the northeastern part of asscrackistan blowing an army ranger humvee with an IED killing all 5, they then drug the gunner and A driver out stripping them of their gear and shooting them in their heads afterwards, why hasnt that video been on US news?
1. They shouldn’t have made this video thats their only fuck up.
2. If you haven’t been IN COMBAT you shouldnt open your mouth to this (Pogs, civies, webwarriors, hippies, etc)
3. America, get back to watching American Idol cause that’s what most of you watch, care and vote for instead of presidential elections.
your right this is horrible… those bastards dont deserve the piss of US marines- that piss is some of the most high quality piss there is and for it to be used on such low life scum is beyond me… simper fi to my brothers
Pingback: Battle Rattle - A Marine Corps Times Blog – Marine captain: 'We don't know how to supervise anymore'
Pingback: Battle Rattle - A Marine Corps Times Blog – Marine captain: ‘We don’t know how to supervise anymore’
Pingback: Marine captain: 'We don't know how to supervise anymore' - Off Duty Plus
Pingback: Marine captain: ‘We don’t know how to supervise anymore’ - Off Duty Plus
HA! The few, the proud………..lick my arse. Does urinating on a dead combatant make you feel like a REAL man?
‘Corse, now that you have flaming poofs among your ranks, you can go back to camp and play leapfrog with all your power bottom mates.
P.S. Back at home, most of your daughters are out screwing whatever silverback knuckle drags it’s way down the street. Isn’t American diversity grand? Tossers.
“I applaude their actions. No problem with it at all. Taking a number 2 would have been better. Semper Fi!”
If you havent fought in AFG then dont say a thing.
I’m an old woman. Come here, Charles, and I’ll kick your pansy ass.
hertz discount codes usaa
I want to get across my passion for your generosity supporting visitors who need help with this one matter. Your personal commitment to getting the message all over had been astonishingly informative and has always made individuals just like me to attain their goals. Your own important information implies a whole lot to me and much more to my colleagues. Best wishes; from all of us.
Thanks , I’ve recently been searching for information about this topic for a while and yours is the greatest I’ve discovered so far. However, what in regards to the bottom line? Are you positive in regards to the source?